Phoenix City Council Work Study Session – September 17, 2019


>>Mayor Gallego: GOOD AFTERNOON. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TODAY AS WE HOLD OUR FIRST WORK STUDY SESSION ON POTENTIAL CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT OPTIONS. WE DO HAVE AN INTERPRETER HERE TODAY, CARMEN BARAJAS. WOULD YOU PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF.>>THANK YOU, MAYOR. (SPEAKING IN SPANISH).>>Mayor Gallego: THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US. COUNCILMAN DICICCIO HAS JOINED US BY PHONE. GOOD AFTERNOON, COUNCILMAN.>>Councilman DiCiccio: THANK YOU, MAYOR.>>Mayor Gallego: BECAUSE THIS IS A COMPLEX ITEM AND THERE IS GREAT INTEREST ON THE TOPIC AS WELL AS A LOT OF ENGAGEMENT FROM THE PHOENIX CITY COUNCIL I CHOSE TO PLACE THIS ON A WORK STUDY SESSION RATHER THAN HAVING THIS ITEM ON A SUBCOMMITTEE OR POLICY AGENDA. THESE WORK STUDIES ALLOW US TO HAVE A TRANSPARENT PROCESS IN A PUBLIC SETTING. THE PURPOSE OF A WORK STUDY IS FOR THE COUNCIL TO GATHER INFORMATION, DO A DEEPER DIVE AND ASK QUESTIONS OF STAFF. I WANT TO THANK MY FELLOW COUNCIL MEMBERS FOR ENGAGING PROACTIVELY ON THESE ISSUES. I KNOW WE HAVE ALL BEEN HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH OUR COMMUNITY AND GETTING MORE INFORMATION FROM STAFF. OTHER EXPERTS. I APPRECIATE THE EFFORTS OF COUNCILMAN NOWAKOWSKI AND COUNCIL MEMBERS WILLIAM AND GARCIA WHO ARE CO-CHAIRING THE AD HOC COMMITTEE. THEIR WORK CONTINUES AS WHILE WE DO THE WORK AT THIS PARTICULAR SERIES. THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE THAT HAS ONE SOLUTION AND THE CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT DISCUSSION IS ONE OF MANY EFFORTS THE CITY OF PHOENIX IS MAKING. BETWEEN ACCELERATING THE ROLLOUT OF BODY-WORN CAMERAS, INCREASE BEHAVIORAL AND MENTAL HEALTH TRAINING, AD HOC COMMITTEE, EARLY INTERVENTION SYSTEM AND OTHER ENHANCEMENTS WE ARE WORKING TOWARDS SERVING OUR COMMUNITY. WE ARE ALSO WORKING TO ENSURE OFFICERS HAVE THE MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORT THEY NEED TO PERFORM THEIR HIGH STRESS JOBS AS WELL AS ADDITIONAL INVESTMENTS IN TECHNOLOGY AND TRAINING. BECAUSE THERE WILL BE NO ACTION AT THIS MEETING, WE WILL NOT BE HEARING PUBLIC COMMENT. WE HAVE HAD A PUBLIC DISCUSSION AT PRIOR MEETINGS ON THIS ISSUE. AND YOU CAN FIND ANSWERS TO MANY OF THE QUESTIONS WE DISCUSSED AT PRIOR MEETINGS AT PHOENIX.GOV. THE PRESENTATIONS TODAY WILL ALSO PROVIDE ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS THAT COUNCIL MEMBERS AND COMMUNITY MEMBERS HAVE ASKED. THERE ARE MANY OPINIONS ON THIS ISSUE. I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT I DO ASK EVERYONE BE RESPECTFUL SO WE CAN HAVE A PRODUCTIVE MEETING AND HEAR THE ENTIRETY OF TODAY’S PRESENTATION. WE ARE HERE TO GATHER INFORMATION AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE WATCHING OR HERE TODAY TO GET IN TOUCH WITH YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS IF YOU HAVE ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS, IDEAS OR QUESTIONS. WE ARE TODAY JOINED BY A NATIONAL EXPERT ON CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AS WELL AS TOP PHOENIX LEGAL EXPERTS WHO WILL HELP US GET THE BEST INFORMATION POSSIBLE AS WE CONSIDER OPTIONS. BECAUSE WE HAVE BROUGHT TOGETHER SO MANY EXPERTS IN THE FIELD WE HAVE A LONG PRESENTATION AHEAD OF US. I WANT TO BE RESPECTFUL OF EVERYONE’S TIME SO I AM GOING TO TRY TO MANAGE TIME AS BEST POSSIBLE AND INCORPORATE BREAKS. TODAY WE’LL FIRST HEAR FROM OUR CITY MANAGER ED ZUERCHER TO GIVE US A FEW UPDATES ON PUBLIC SAFETY ITEMS AND THEN MILTON DOHONEY WILL GIVE US AN OVERVIEW OF THE DAY AND A RECAP FROM THE LAST TIME WE SPOKE. WE THINK THAT WILL TAKE ABOUT 15 MINUTES. FOLLOWING THAT WE WILL BE FROM THE [INDISCERNIBLE] PEREZ THE DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS FOR — HOUR. THE REMAINDER OF THE TIME WILL BE SPENT DISCUSSING DIFFERENT MODELS AND OPTIONS PHOENIX COULD PURSUE. MILTON DOHONEY WILL BE JOINED BY OUTSIDE COUNSEL MARIO GRADY, ONE OF THE STATE’S TOP ATTORNEYS AND HER DISTINGUISHED COLLEAGUE HAYLEIGH CRAWFORD. THEY WILL PROVIDE GENERAL GUIDANCE ON LEGAL ISSUES SURROUNDING EACH OF THE OPTIONS. THE THE PLAN IS TO END THIS MEETING NO LATER THAN 5:30. WE HAVE A SECOND WORK STUDY SESSION SCHEDULED FOR OCTOBER 15th AND I AM NOW GOING TO EARN AT THIS TIME OVER TO OUR CITY MANAGER TO GET STARTED.>>THANK YOU, MAYOR. AND MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL. WE’RE HERE TODAY TO PROVIDE INFORMATION AND AN OPPORTUNITY FOR FOR SIGNIFICANT POLICYMAKING DIALOGUE ON CIVILIAN REVIEW MODELS FOR POLICE ACTIVITIES. TO RECAP FOR A MINUTE, IN EARLY JULY THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL DIRECTED A PATH FORWARD ON SEVERAL ITEMS. I WANT TO GIVE YOU A BRIEF STATUS. FIRST, AN AD HOC COMMITTEE WAS FORMED TO REVIEW IMPLEMENTATION OF PREVIOUS WORK ON POLICE COMMUNITY RELATIONS. A COMMITTEE WAS ESTABLISHED AND HELD THE FIRST MEETING AUGUST 29th. IT HAS THE SECOND MEETING ON SEPTEMBER 19th. THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW. THE SECOND PIECE WAS AUTHORIZATION TO PROCURE SERVICES FOR COMMUNITY-WIDE AND POLICE DEPARTMENT-WIDE SURVEYS. THE MAYOR PUT A REVIEW AND INPUT ON THE SURVEY INTO THE CHARGE OF THE AD HOC COMMITTEE AND THE STAFF HAS BEEN WORKING TO PREPARE A SCOPE OF WORK AND WILL GET FEEDBACK FROM THE AD HOC COMMITTEE ON THAT SCOPE OF WORK. THE THIRD PIECE WAS AUTHORIZATION TO PROCURE AN EARLY INTERVENTION SYSTEM FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. STAFF HAS BEEN CONDUCTING RESEARCH IN REVIEWING OUR EXISTING SYSTEMS AND DATA AND A REQUEST FOR INFORMATION WILL BE RELEASED NEXT WEEK TO ENSURE WE HAVE FULL INFORMATION ON WHAT IS AVAILABLE IN THE MARKETPLACE. FINALLY THE MAYOR COMMITTED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH A ROBUST DISCUSSION OF THE CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT MODELS FOR PHOENIX, WHICH BRINGS US HERE TODAY, TO A WORK STUDY SESSION. WE’LL HAVE OUR STAFF PRESENTATION AND THAT INCLUDES THE AVAILABILITY OF OUTSIDE COUNSEL. THE COUNSEL WILL REFERENCE A NUMBER OF DOCUMENTS AND WE HAVE THOSE ADD YOUR SEAT, WHICH INCLUDE THE CHARTER AND SOME OTHER LEGAL DOCUMENTS THAT YOU CAN REFER TO TODAY AND FOR THE NEXT MEETINGS. WITH THAT, I WILL NOW TURN IT OVER TO ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER MILTON DOHONEY.>>THANK YOU, ED. MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, GOOD AFTERNOON. WE’RE HERE TO CONTINUE OUR DISCUSSION REGARDING CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT, PUTTING NAMES AND PHASE TOGETHER TO MY IMMEDIATE RIGHT IS LEON APEREZ, WHO RESIDES IN TUCSON. SHE IS THE DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS FOR NACO, MARIO GRADE OWE IS TO HER RIGHT AND HAYLEIGH CRAWFORD SITS TO HER RIGHT. THEY ARE FROM OSBORN MALDAWN AND WILL PROVIDE OUR OUTSIDE COUNSEL FUNCTION. FIRST OFF, I WOULD LIKE TO GO THROUGH THE MEETING FLOW FOR TODAY. WE’LL DO A BRIEF RECAP OF WHAT HAPPENED ON JULY 2nd WHEN WE HAD OUR MEETING IN THE ORPHEUM THEATRE. WE WILL SHARE SOME HIGH-LEVEL OBSERVATIONS WITH YOU. DURING THE COURSE OF THE SUMMER WE HAD DONE A DEEPER DIVE WITH SOME COMMUNITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY THAT HAVE ONE MODEL OR ANOTHER. WE’VE TALKED WITH STAFF THAT WORKS IN VARIOUS OFFICES. AND WE’VE DONE SOME ADDITIONAL INTERNET RESEARCH. SO WE WANT TO SHARE SOME THINGS WE’VE GLEANED OVER THE COURSE OF THE SUMMER. FOLLOWING THAT, MISS PEREZ WILL MAKE HER PRESENTATION. SHE WILL SPEAK ABOUT THE THREE CATEGORICAL MODELS THAT WE’VE TALKED ABOUT OUTLINING BOTH STRENGTHS AND CHALLENGES ASSOCIATED WITH EACH ONE, AND THEN WE’LL DO A Q&A WITH HER AS THE MAYOR INDICATED. FOLLOWING THAT WE WILL DO A REVIEW OF OUR CURRENT COMPLAINT PROCESSES, WHAT WE ARE DOING TODAY IN TERMS OF ADDRESSING COMPLAINTS THAT ARE BROUGHT FORWARD BY CITIZENS. THERE WILL BE A LEGAL ANALYSIS PROVIDED BY OUR OUTSIDE COUNSEL. THAT WILL LEAD US TO A SNAPSHOT OF SOME PHOENIX-CENTERED MODELS. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS ASKED OF US ON JULY 2nd WAS TO COME TO THE WORK STUDY WITH SOME SAMPLES OF, IF YOU WERE TO SET THIS MODEL UP IN PHOENIX, ARIZONA, WHAT MIGHT IT LOOK LIKE? SO IT’S NOT MEANT TO BE A TOTALLY DEFINITIVE BUT TO GIVE YOU ENOUGH OF A FLAVOR OF THE KINDS OF DUTIES ASSOCIATED WITH EACH MODEL, STAFFING, ET CETERA. AND THEN WE WILL FOLLOW THAT BY SOME GENERAL DISCUSSION, JUST Q&A, BETWEEN THE PANEL AND THE MEMBERS OF COUNCIL AS LONG AS YOU WOULD LIKE. FIRST LET’S STEP BACK TO JULY 2nd AT THE ORPHEUM. WE TALKED ABOUT THE GOALS OF CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT, TO IMPROVE PUBLIC TRUST, TO ENSURE THERE IS AN ACCESSIBLE COMPLAINT PROCESS AVAILABLE TO ALL CITIZENS, TO PROMOTE A THOROUGH AND FAIR INVESTIGATION, INCREASED TRANSPARENCY AND TO DETER POLICE MISCONDUCT. WE TALKED ABOUT THE MODELS THAT TEND TO FALL INTO ONE OF THREE BUCKETS. ONE CALLED REVIEW. ONE CALLED AUDIT MONITOR. AND ONE CALLED INVESTIGATIONS. THE SCOPE, STRUCTURE AND AUTHORITY OF THE MODEL THAT YOU CHOOSE IS TYPICALLY CODIFIED BY WAY OF EITHER CITY ORDINANCE, EXECUTIVE ORDER, WHICH YOU WOULD TEND TO FIND IN A STRONG MAYOR FORM OF GOVERNMENT, OR A CONSENT DECREE. THOUGH THE HIGH LEVEL OBSERVATIONS THAT WE GLEANED OVER THE SUMMER, OVERSIGHT MODELS ARE NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR CURRENT COMPLAINT PROCESSES. WE FOUND THAT IN EVERY CITY THERE’S SOME SEGMENT OF THE POPULATION THAT KNOWS WHAT THE CURRENT PROCESS IS, THEY KNOW HOW TO USE IT, THEY’RE COMFORTABLE USING IT, THEY DO USE IT, AND SO AS CITIES HAVE GONE THROUGH DELIBERATION TO SET UP THEIR MODEL, THEY DIDN’T WANT TO TAKE THAT AWAY. THEY SIMPLY CREATED AN ALTERNATIVE SYSTEM THAT’S AVAILABLE. IT IS NOT USED FOR CRIMINAL MATTERS. YOU HEARD ME SAY THAT ON JULY 2nd. THAT’S STILL TRUE. A HYBRID STRUCTURE — HYBRID STRUCTURES ARE COMMON. SOME CITIES MAY BORROW DUTIES THAT TYPICALLY MAY BE FOUND WITHIN A REVIEW CATEGORY AND BLEND IT WITH SOME FROM AN AUDIT OR MONITOR CATEGORY. IT’S A COMMON THING YOU SEE AROUND THE COUNTRY. MODELS DO EVOLVE OVER TIME AND SOMETIMES CITIES WILL CHANGE THE NAME OF THEIR OVERSIGHT AGENCY. THEY MAY ALSO INVOLVE THE SCOPE OF DUTIES THE OFFICE IS ASKED TO PERFORM. MEDIATION, WE NOTED, WAS A FORMAL PART OF THE PROCESS IN SOME COMMUNITIES WHERE THERE IS A COMPLAINT BROUGHT FORWARD, IT DOESN’T WORK FOR EVERY SITUATION, BUT MAYBE IF THE COMPLAINT IS MAYBE NOT AS SERIOUS AS OTHERS AND THE CITIZEN IS WILLING TO GO THROUGH A VOLUNTARY MEDIATION PROCESS, THEN THE POLICE AND THE CITIZEN WILL GO TO A MEDIATOR AND SEE IF THE COMPLAINT CAN BE RESOLVED. BOARD COMPOSITION IS SOMETHING ELSE THAT WE NOTED IN LOOKING AROUND THE COUNTRY. BOARDS TEND TO BE WIDELY DIVERSE. THEY CONTAIN A LOT OF RELEVANT EXPERTISE AND BACKGROUND. WE FOUND MANY BOARDS AROUND THE COUNTRY WHERE THE BOARD MEMBERS WERE EITHER ATTORNEYS, RETIRED JUDGES, PEOPLE THAT HAVE INVESTIGATIVE BACKGROUNDS, PEOPLE FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR, PEOPLE FROM THE NONPROFIT SECTOR, BUT REGARDLESS OF THE CREDENTIALS THAT THEY COME TO THE BOARD WITH, MOST CITIES ALSO REQUIRE THEM TO GO THROUGH ADDITIONAL TRAINING. BECAUSE IF YOU ARE GOING TO ASSESS OR IN SOME CASES DETERMINE THE ACTIONS OF A POLICE OFFICER ON THE STREET, YOU NEED TO HAVE A FAMILIARITY WITH POLICE PROCEDURE, AND SO THAT TRAINING IS MEANT TO ENSURE THAT THAT’S THERE. SOMETIMES THEY WILL ALSO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL TECHNICAL EXPERTISE AS THE BOARD NEEDS. STAFF BACKGROUNDS ARE EQUALLY SPECIALIZED. A NUMBER OF THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTORS THAT WE SAW THAT ARE RUNNING OVERSIGHT AGENCIES HAPPEN TO BE ATTORNEYS. THEIR STAFF HAS ANALYTICAL BACKGROUNDS. THEY’RE USED TO DEALING WITH DATA, LARGE NUMBERS — LARGE AMOUNTS OF DATA, AND ALSO POLICY. EVERYONE WE TALKED TO, WHETHER IT WAS VIA EMAIL OR TELEPHONE, TOLD US THAT CREATION OF AN OVERSIGHT MODEL, REGARDLESS OF WHICH MODEL IT IS, WILL BRING PUSHBACK. SO THEY TOLD US TO EXPECT THAT. THE KEY IS TO TRY TO WORK THROUGH IT OVER TIME AS YOUR COMMUNITY SETTLES IN ON WHAT IT WANTS TO DO. WE WERE ALSO CAUTIONED THAT UNDERFUNDING MODELS HAMPERS THEIR EFFECTIVENESS. SO IF WE ARE GOING TO MAKE A CHOICE ABOUT A MODEL, WE NEED TO GIVE IT THE TOOLS AND RESOURCES IN ORDER FOR IT TO CARRY OUT ITS FUNCTION. NOT DOING THAT WOULD ONLY CAUSE MORE ISSUES IN THE COMMUNITY AND RENDER THE MODEL INEFFECTIVE. AND NEARLY EVERY MODEL WE LOOKED AT, THEY STILL RETAIN A DISCIPLINARY DECISION-MAKING FOR EMPLOYEES WITH THE CHIEF OF POLICE. YES?>>Councilwoman Stark: DO YOU ACTUALLY HAVE A PERCENTAGE OF — WHEN YOU SAY NEARLY ALL MODELS, IS THAT 90%, 95, 75? HAVE YOU LOOKED AT A PERCENTAGE?>>MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, WE DID NOT TRY TO DETERMINE A PERCENTAGE, BUT BETWEEN THE COMMUNITIES WE ENGAGED FOR THE JULY 2nd MEETING AND ALL THE COMMUNITIES WE ENGAGED OVER THE COURSE OF THE SUMMER, INCLUDING ALSO OUR TEAM VISITED WITH DENVER, SAN ANTONIO AND AURORA, THEY ALL SAY THE SAME. I DON’T KNOW IF MISS PEREZ WOULD HAVE A PERCENTAGE FROM A NATIONAL PERSPECTIVE. SHE SAYS NO.>>Mayor Gallego: COUNCILWOMAN PASTOR.>>Councilwoman Pastor: I HAVE SEVERAL QUESTIONS BUT I’M GOING TO PIGGYBACK ON COUNCILWOMAN STARK. WHEN IT SAYS NEARLY ALL MODELS RETAIN DISCIPLINARY DECISIONS WITH THE CHIEF, IN THOSE MODELS, DO THEY ALSO HAVE A PROCESS WHERE A DECISION IS MADE ALONG WITH THE CITY MANAGER OR ANYONE ELSE OTHER THAN THE CHIEF?>>MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, ESSENTIALLY, THE CHIEF IS GRANTED THEIR AUTHORITY THROUGH THE CITY MANAGER.>>Councilwoman Pastor: OKAY.>>SO THE CHIEF RUNS THE DAY-TO-DAY OPERATIONS OF THE POLICE FORCE, AND WHAT WE HEARD ALONG THAT LINE, BECAUSE — IT IS SOMETHING THAT’S COME UP WHERE CITIES HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT WHAT IF WE SOMEHOW ALTERED IT, AND WHAT WE HEARD IS THAT IF THE OFFICERS KNOW THAT THE CHIEF CAN’T DISCIPLINE THEM, THAT THAT FUNCTION IS TAKEN AWAY FROM THE CHIEF, THE CHIEF IS VIRTUALLY INEFFECTIVE BECAUSE IT’S STILL A PARAMILITARY ENVIRONMENT. THE CHIEF IS THERE TO RUN THE DEPARTMENT. AND IF HE OR SHE CAN’T DO THAT — SO TO COUNTER IT YOU HAVE AN APPEALS MECHANISM, AND THAT’S WHAT CIVIL SERVICE IS. SO IF YOU WERE THINKING ABOUT CHECK AND BALANCE, THE CHIEF DISCIPLINES. CIVIL SERVICE IS AN APPEAL OFFICE. I’D ALSO TURN TO ANYONE ON THE PANEL IF YOU HAVE COMMENTS ON THAT.>>MAYOR AND COUNCIL, WE’VE LOOKED AT THIS IN TERMS OF THE REVIEW OF THE STRUCTURE OF GOVERNMENT UNDER THE CHARTER, IS ONE OF THE ISSUES WE’VE BEEN STUDYING, AND CONSISTENT WITH WHAT MILTON WAS DESCRIBING UNDER THE CHARTER IT’S THE MANAGER WHO HAS THE AUTHORITY OVER EMPLOYEES AND THE CHIEF IS HIS DESIGNEE UNDER THE DEPARTMENT. THERE’S ALSO — SO THOSE LIMITATIONS ARE IMPORTANT IN TERMS OF HOW THIS WHOLE PROCESS WORKS STRUCTURALLY. AND THERE ARE OTHER ISSUES WE’LL GET INTO FURTHER WHEN WE’RE DISCUSSING THE SORT OF PHOENIX-CENTERED MODEL.>>City Mgr. Zuercher: ALSO, LIANA MAY HAVE THIS EXPERIENCE IN TUCSON. MY UNDERSTANDING IN TUCSON, IF THERE WAS A DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CHIEF AND THE AUDITOR, THE CITY MANAGER WAS BROUGHT IN TO DECIDE THE MATTER OR MAYBE EXPLAIN A LITTLE ABOUT THAT INTERACTION. IS THAT WHAT YOU’RE GETTING TO –>>Councilwoman Pastor: I’M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT. IT’S NOT SOLELY IF A MODEL IS BUILT AND THEN SOME OF THESE MODELS, THAT IT’S NOT SOLELY THE CHIEF THAT — HE OR SHE WILL MAKE THE FINAL DECISION, BUT THERE IS A PROCESS IN GETTING TO THAT DECISION WITH THE WHOLE COLLECTIVE.>>YES, AND IT DEPENDS — IT DEPENDS ON THE MODEL BUT IN THE CITY OF TUCSON THAT’S EXACTLY THE WAY IT WORKED, AS THE AUDITOR — IF THERE WAS A DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CHIEF AND THE AUDITOR WITH RESPECT TO THE OUTCOME, THE DECIDING FACTOR, IF YOU WILL, WAS THE CITY MANAGER.>>Councilwoman Pastor: OKAY. AND THAT’S WHAT I’M ASKING. MY THREE QUESTIONS, OVERSIGHT MODELS ARE NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR CURRENT COMPLAINT PROCESS. IS THAT DUE TO DUE PROCESS? IS THAT DUE TO CHARTER? OR ALL MODELS HAVE A DUE PROCESS AND THIS IS WHAT’S CONSIDERED A SEPARATE MODEL?>>MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, SO IN DOING OUR RESEARCH ON THAT POINT AND IN ENGAGING MODELS AROUND THE COUNTRY, AND OUR — I RECALL PARTICULAR MY CONVERSATION WITH THE PERSON THAT HEADS UP THE MODEL IN PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA. SO HE SAID THEY GAVE SOME THOUGHT TO SETTING THE MODEL UP WHERE ALL OF THE COMPLAINTS WOULD GO THROUGH THE OVERSIGHT OFFICE, AND AS THEY DEBATED THAT POINT, THEY REALIZED THAT TODAY, JUST LIKE IN PHOENIX, A CITIZEN CAN PLACE A COMPLAINT WITH A COUNCIL PERSON. A CITIZEN CAN PLACE A COMPLAINT WITH THE CITY MANAGER, WITH THE POLICE CHIEF, WITH A NUMBER OF OF DIFFERENT ENTRY POINTS, AND THEY’RE COMFORTABLE WITH THE PROCESS BEING TRIGGERED THAT WAY. SO THEY DIDN’T WANT TO TAKE IT AWAY FROM THEM. THE OTHER POINT THAT THEY RAISED WITH US WAS THE OFFICE IS REALLY NOT STAFFED AT A LEVEL WHERE YOU WOULD SAY EVERY SINGLE COMPLAINT THAT MAY BE GENERATED HAS TO GO THROUGH THAT ONE ENTRY POINT. SO THAT’S WHY THEY DIDN’T DO IT.>>Councilwoman Pastor: THE OTHER ONE THAT I DID NOT HEAR, I HEARD BOARD COMPOSITION, I DID NOT HEAR IS WHY WE — IT’S WIDELY DIVERSE AND CONTAINS EXPERTISE AND BACKGROUND. I CANNOT HEAR COMMUNITY MEMBER BEING PART OF IT. ARE COMMUNITY MEMBERS PART OF THE BOARD COMPOSITION?>>MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, IT’S AT THE DISCRETION OF HOWEVER THE COUNCIL SETS IT UP.>>Councilwoman Pastor: OKAY.>>SO IF IT’S EACH COUNCIL PERSON PICKS SO MANY, IF IT’S YOU’RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THERE’S CERTAIN EXPERTISE ON THE BOARD, THERE’S A COMBINATION OF BOTH. THERE ARE SOME CITIES WHERE THE COUNCIL MEMBERS APPOINTED SOMEONE FROM THEIR DISTRICT. THE MAYOR’S OFFICE ADDED SOMEONE THAT THEY WANTED ON THERE. AND THEN THEY LOOKED AT WHAT KIND OF EXPERTISE WAS AVAILABLE. SO THEY THEN SUPPLIED TECHNICAL EXPERTISE TO MAKE SURE THERE’S THE RIGHT LEVEL ON THE BOARD FOR THE KIND OF CASES THEY’RE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT, BUT IT’S ALL AT THE DISCRETION OF WHAT COUNCIL WANTS TO DO.>>Councilwoman Pastor: OKAY. MY FINAL AND LAST QUESTION: CREATION OF THE OVERSIGHT MODEL USUALLY MET WITH PUSHBACK. FROM WHOM?>>FROM ONE SEGMENT OF THE COMMUNITY OR ANOTHER, OR ALSO WITHIN THE GOVERNMENT ITSELF. WHAT WE HEARD IS THERE WILL BE SOME ELECTED OFFICIALS THAT WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE AND OTHERS THAT WON’T. THERE MIGHT BE POSITIONS TAKEN ON THE EDITORIAL PAGE OF YOUR LOCAL NEWSPAPER. ALL OF THOSE KINDS OF THINGS ARE COMMONPLACE, AND SO WHAT THEY WERE SHARING WITH US IS YOU SHOULDN’T NECESSARILY BE PUT OFF BY THAT. JUST KNOW THAT THAT’S GOING TO HAPPEN. IT’S SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVE TO WORK THROUGH.>>Councilwoman Pastor: OKAY. THANK YOU.>>MAYOR GALLEGO: COUNCILMAN NOWAKOWSKI.>>Councilman Nowakowski: YOU MENTIONED WE REVIEWED SOME CITIES. WHAT ARE THOSE CITIES THAT YOU ALL REVIEWED?>>SO, IF YOU’LL RECALL FROM THE JULY 2nd MEETING, WE HAD TAKEN A LOOK AT THE TOP 15 CITIES IN THE U.S. BY POPULATION. ALSO WE’VE LOOKED AT LAS VEGAS. WE’VE LOOKED AT BOISE, IDAHO. AS I INDICATED, WE MENTIONED — WE VISITED THREE CITIES THIS SUMMER. THAT WAS DENVER, SAN ANTONIO AND AURORA, COLORADO. WE WILL BE VISITING WITH HOUSTON IN NOVEMBER. SO IN THE TOP 15 THERE IS L.A., THERE’S NEW YORK, CHICAGO, DALLAS, AUSTIN. WE’VE LOOKED AT SAN JOSE. AND SO IN EACH OF THOSE CASES, AND OVER THE COURSE OF THE SUMMER, WE WANTED TO DO IT A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY THAN WE DID IN PREPPING FOR JULY 2nd. SO FOR THE JULY 2nd MEETING IN THE ORPHEUM, WE DIDN’T NECESSARILY TALK TO LIFE BODIES THAT WORK IN THOSE OFFICES. OVER THE COURSE OF THE SUMMER, WE WENT BACK AND WE CONTACTED SOMEBODY IN NEW YORK. WE CONTACTED SOMEBODY IN CHICAGO. WE CONTACTED PEOPLE IN PHILADELPHIA. SO WE WANTED TO MARRY UP THE INFORMATION THAT’S ON THE WEB WITH WHAT THE STAFF IS SAYING THEY ACTUALLY DO. IN ADDITION, WE ASKED THEM TO PRESENT DOCUMENTATION. SO IF YOUR MODEL WAS CREATED BY WAY OF ORDINANCE, CAN WE GET A COPY OF THAT ORDINANCE? IF THE MODEL WAS CREATED BY EXECUTIVE ORDER, CAN WE GET A COPY OF THAT? SO THAT WAS THE APPROACH THAT WE TOOK. SO NEXT IS MISS PEREZ, AND SHE WILL WALK THROUGH HER SLIDES.>>THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MAYOR GALLEGO, MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL, FOR HAVING ME HERE TODAY. AS YOU MAY HAVE REALIZED BY NOW, I’M ALSO THE FORMER POLICE AUDITOR FOR THE CITY OF TUCSON. I WAS THE CITY OF — THE CITY OF TUCSON HAS AN AUDITOR MODEL WITH A BOARD ATTACHED TO IT AS WELL. SO I WAS THE AUDITOR WHEN IT WAS FIRST CREATED IN 1997 UNTIL THE TIME THAT I RETIRED IN 2014, AND THEN I WENT BACK FOR A FEW YEARS, AND I JUST RECENTLY RETIRED ABOUT TWO MONTHS AGO AGAIN, BUT I’M HERE TODAY AS DIRECTOR MUCH OPERATIONS FOR N ACOL AND I HAVE BEEN A MEMBER OF NACOL FOR MER INTO CAREER AS THE AUDITOR FOR THE CITY OF TUCSON AND IT’S A NATIONAL ORGANIZATION THAT BASICALLY BRINGS A LEVEL OF PROFESSIONALISM TO OVERSIGHT MODELS ACROSS THE COUNTRY. WE PROVIDE TRAINING, EDUCATION, ASSISTANCE. I SPEAK TO COMMUNITIES EVERY SINGLE DAY ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WHICH ARE IN THE SAME POSITION YOU ARE RIGHT NOW. BASICALLY TAKING THAT THOUGHTFUL APPROACH TO WHAT MODEL IS GOING TO WORK BEST FOR YOUR COMMUNITY. SO HOPEFULLY I CAN SHARE SOME INFORMATION WITH YOU TODAY AND BE ABLE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE. I PLAN TO GO THROUGH EACH OF THE MODELS, BUT PLEASE ASK QUESTIONS AS NECESSARY. SO THIS IS A QUESTION — THE MILLION-DOLLAR QUESTION, RIGHT, I AM ASKED EVERY SINGLE DAY. IS ONE MODEL BETTER THAN THE OTHER? BECAUSE THERE’S A VARIETY OF MODELS. SO WHEN DECIDING WHICH MODEL TO IMPLEMENT, REALLY THE NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY AND ALL THE STAKEHOLDERS SHOULD BE VERY CAREFULLY ASSESSED AS YOU’RE GOING THROUGH THIS PROCESS. THE LEVEL OF SUPPORT YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE FOR THE MODELS. I BELIEVE MILTON JUST MENTIONED PUSHBACK. THERE NEEDS TO BE A LEVEL OF SUPPORT BUT THERE WILL ALSO BE THOSE THAT WANT CERTAIN THINGS IN YOUR MODEL. YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DECIDE GOING FORWARD WHAT WORKS BEST FOR YOUR COMMUNITY AND WHAT WORKS BEST FOR WHAT YOU’RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH. THE LEVEL OF AUTHORITY AND INDEPENDENCE THAT YOU GIVE YOUR OVERSIGHT ENTITY, BE A BOARD, BE IT AN INVESTIGATIVE MODEL, BE IT AN AUDITOR, THAT IS GOING TO BE ESSENTIAL TO THE TYPE OF MODEL YOU CREATE BECAUSE THAT LEVEL OF AUTHORITY AND INDEPENDENCE IS GOING TO ESTABLISH THE LEVEL OF CREDIBILITY THAT YOU HAVE WITH YOUR COMMUNITY AND WITH ALL THE STAKEHOLDERS THAT ARE GOING TO BE AFFECTED. THE EXPECTED OUTCOMES. WHAT IS IT THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO ACHIEVE? IS IT BUILDING THE RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN THE LAW ENFORCEMENT ENTITY AND YOUR COMMUNITY? IS IT OFFERING THAT LEVEL OF TRANSPARENCY ON HOW COMPLAINTS ARE INVESTIGATED AND THE OUTCOMES OF THEM? SO WE’LL TALK ABOUT THE REVIEW MODEL FIRST. SO IN A REVIEW MODEL, THESE ARE MOST COMMONLY THE BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS, AND THOSE ARE — THIS IS THE TYPE OF MODEL THAT ALLOWS THE OVERSIGHT AGENCY TO REVIEW ONLY CASES THAT ARE CLOSED, AND SO WHAT THEY ARE REVIEWING ARE THE CASES THAT ARE INVESTIGATED BY, IN YOUR CASE, YOUR OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS. SO THEY ARE REVIEWING THE COMPLETED INVESTIGATION ONCE EVERYTHING IS COMPLETED, ALL THE WAY UP THROUGH THE DISCIPLINE PROCESS, IF THAT IS RELEVANT TO THE COMPLAINT. IT’S AN INDIVIDUAL BOARD OR COMMISSION THAT’S BASICALLY AUTHORIZED TO REVIEW INVESTIGATIONS AND THEY CAN SOMETIMES, HERE AGAIN, DEPENDING HOW YOU STRUCTURE IT, THEY CAN EITHER AGREE OR DISAGREE ON THE OUTCOME AND THE INVESTIGATION. WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR PRIMARILY WAS THE INVESTIGATION THOROUGH AND COMPLETE, AND IS THERE GOING TO BE A MECHANISM TO RETURN THAT FOR FURTHER INVESTIGATION IF THE BOARD BELIEVES THAT THE INVESTIGATION WAS NOT A FAIR OR THOROUGH. THE RANGE OF AUTHORITY FOR THE REVIEW MODELS IS SOMETIMES — SOMETIMES THERE WILL BE PROFESSIONAL STAFF, BUT SOMETIMES THESE MODELS, THE BOARD MODELS, ARE USUALLY VOLUNTEERS. VOLUNTEER BOARD MEMBERS. I MENTIONED THE CITY OF TUCSON. THE BOARD FOR THE CITY OF TUCSON WERE NOT PROFESSIONAL STAFF. THEY WERE VOLUNTEERS. THEY WERE EACH APPOINTED, ONE EACH, THE MAYOR APPOINTED ONE INDIVIDUAL AND EACH OF THE COUNCIL MEMBERS HAD AN APPOINTMENT TO THE BOARD BUT THEY WERE SERVED BY PROFESSIONAL STAFF. SO IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO CARRY OUT THEIR DUTIES, THE CITY MANAGER’S OFFICE OR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT’S OFFICE, PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS, ALSO PROVIDED THEM WITH INFORMATION THEY NEEDED TO CARRY OUT THEIR DUTIES. AGAIN, MOSTLY VOLUNTEER BOARD MEMBERS ARE THE ONES THAT ARE — THERE’S VERY FEW CITIES THAT HAVE ACTUALLY HAVE WHERE THEIR BOARDS ARE ACTUALLY CONSIDERED STAFF. THE ONLY ONE I CAN REALLY THINK OF OFFHAND IS ATLANTA. THEY HAVE AN EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR THAT ACTUALLY WORKS FOR THE BOARD, BUT THE BOARD KIND OF INTERACTS WITH THAT EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR ON A REGULAR BASIS, BUT THEY ARE PAID STAFF. SO IN SOME CASES THE BOARD WOULD HAVE — AS I MENTIONED — THE AUTHORITY TO REQUIRE ADDITIONAL INVESTIGATION IF THEY FEEL THAT IT WAS INADEQUATE. THE BIGGEST TAKE ON THE REVIEW BOARDS IS BECAUSE THEY’RE PUBLIC BOARDS THEY MEET IN PUBLIC, SO THERE’S THAT LEVEL OF TRANSPARENCY, WHICH THOSE ARE HIGH EXPECTATIONS AND RIGHTLY SO OF THE COMMUNITY. THEY ARE MEETINGS THAT ARE HELD IN PUBLIC. AND DEPENDING ON THE STATE THAT THEY’RE IN AND THE UNION CONTRACTS AND, I BELIEVE, MISS O’GRADY COULD PROBABLY TALK ABOUT THIS LATER, YOU HAVE TO BE COMPAREFUL WHAT KIND OF INFORMATION YOU ARE SHARING IN THE PUBLIC MEETINGS. I KNOW IN THE CITY OF TUCSON THE WAY WE DID IT BECAUSE OF OUR UNION CONTRACTS WE COULD NOT NECESSARILY DISCUSS OFFICER’S NAMES IN THE SETTING BUT WE COULD DISCUSS THE COMPLAINT AND THE INVESTIGATION BUT WE WOULD NOT NECESSARILY USE THE OFFICERS’ NAMES WHEN THE BOARD WAS ACTUALLY DISCUSSING COMPLAINTS. SO SOME OF THE STRENGTHS OF THIS TYPE OF A MODEL, AGAIN, PROVIDE A HIGH LEVEL AMOUNT OF TRANSPARENCY WITH THE COMMUNITY. AND A LEVEL OF INVOLVEMENT WITH THE COMMUNITY. I WAS ALWAYS — ALTHOUGH THE INDIVIDUALS THAT WERE APPOINTED TO THE BOARD WERE STRICTLY THE ELECTED OFFICIALS APPOINTMENTS, THERE WAS ALSO THREE ADVISORY MEMBERS TO THE BOARD THAT THEY COULD APPOINT AMONGST THEMSELVES IF THEY FELT THAT THERE WAS A NEED TO GET MAYBE A PERSPECTIVE FROM SOMEBODY FROM, MAYBE, THE FAITH-BASED COMMUNITY OR — I ALWAYS PUSHED THERE NEEDED TO BE A VOICE THAT REPRESENTED THE YOUTH POPULATION ON THE BOARD, AND WE GOT AN INDIVIDUAL FOR THAT AS WELL. TO BE FLEXIBLE, TO PUT MEMBERS ON THAT BOARD THAT ARE GOING TO HELP YOU HELP THE BOARD ACHIEVE THEIR MISSION AND ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE KINDS OF ISSUES THAT ARE PRESENTED TO THEM. ANOTHER STRENGTH IS THAT THE POLICE DEPARTMENTS ARE MORE LIKELY TO TAKE ACTION ON RECOMMENDATIONS THAT ARE MADE BEFORE THESE BOARDS THAT ARE MADE IN PUBLIC. SO THESE ARE THINGS THAT ARE PUBLICLY BEING — IT’S THAT ACCOUNTABILITY LEVEL THESE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE BEING MADE IN PUBLIC. SOME OF THE CHALLENGES THAT THESE TYPES OF OVERSIGHT ENTITIES, SOMETIMES THEY LACK THE INDEPENDENCE TO BE EFFECTIVE AND, AGAIN, THAT’S ALL ABOUT HOW YOU STRUCTURE IT AND WHAT LEVEL OF AUTHORITY YOU GIVE THE BOARD. USUALLY THEY’RE OPERATING A CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR THAT ARE KIND OF ACTING IN THE MANNER TO BE ABLE TO EITHER SELECT THE NUMBER OF CASES TO BE REVIEWED — BECAUSE IF YOU’RE WORKING WITH AN ALL-VOLUNTEER BOARD, THEY’RE NOT MEETING ON, LIKE A REGULAR BASIS. MAYBE THEY ARE MEETING ONCE A MONTH. THAT’S A BIG ASK OF VOLUNTEERS TO LOOK AT CASES EVERY SINGLE MONTH. SO THEIR TIME MAY BE VERY LIMITED AS FAR AS WHAT THEY CAN ACTUALLY PROVIDE TO YOU. IT ALSO ENTAILS SYSTEMIC TRAINING OF THE BOARD MEMBERS, WHICH CAN BE VERY COSTLY. SO TO KEEP ALL THE BOARD MEMBERS AT A LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING, EVEN AS SIMPLE AS KIND OF LIKE THE NOMENCLATURE OF THE POLICE WORLD WITH RESPECT TO TERMS AND JARGON THAT IS USED IN SOME OF THE POLICE REPORTS, UNDERSTANDING HOW TO READ CASE REPORTS, UNDERSTANDING HOW WHAT YOU’RE LISTENING TO WHEN YOU’RE HEARING A RADIO TRANSMISSION OR WHAT YOU’RE SEEING IN THE BODY-WORN CAMERA OR THE OFFICER’S, THE MOBILE — ALL THAT STUFF IS TRAINING THAT YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE THOSE BOARDS AND TO CREATE THEM BECAUSE THEY’RE ALL VOLUNTEERS WHEN THEY’RE COMING ON AND OFF THE BOARD. TO HAVE THEM ALL AT THE SAME LEVEL OF TRAINING IS SOMEWHAT OF A CHALLENGE. SO THE ONGOING MONITORING/AUDITOR MODEL, OF COURSE, THIS IS THE MODEL I’M MOST FAMILIAR WITH, BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT I LIVED FOR 20 YEARS, IT SEEMS TO BE ONE OF THE MORE POPULAR ONES NOWADAYS. I WOULD SAY PROBABLY OF THE TOP 90 TO 100 OVERSIGHT ENTITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY, USUALLY THE — THERE IS SOME KIND OF A COMPONENT OF THE AUDITING/MONITORING MODEL BUILT INTO THEIR OVERSIGHT ENTITY. THIS MODEL IN PARTICULAR ALLOWS THE OVERSIGHT ENTITY OR THE AGENCY RATHER TO ACTIVELY ENGAGE IN MANY OR ALL THE ASPECTS OF THE COMPLAINT PROCESS TO SOME DEGREE. IT’S MOST COMMONLY REFERRED TO AS AN AUDITOR, MONITOR OR OMBUDSMAN. THEY ARE SOMETIMES USED INTERCHANGEABLY. THE RANGE OF AUTHORITY FOR THIS TYPE OF MODEL, THEY CAN ACTUALLY BE SET UP TO TAKE COMPLAINTS. MY OFFICE HAD A COMPLAINT INTAKE FUNCTION. SO WE COULD TAKE COMPLAINTS IN MY OFFICE DIRECTLY. WE COULD BE — THE AUDITOR/MONITORS ARE USUALLY INVOLVED IN COMPLAINT CLASSIFICATIONS. SO USUALLY YOUR OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS ARE CLASSIFYING THE STANDARDS AS THEY’RE COMING IN WITH RESPECT TO ARE THEY — DO THEY FALL UNDER AN OPERATIONAL STANDARDS TYPE OF A COMPLAINT? IS IT A PROFESSIONAL TYPES OF BEHAVIORS? SO AS FAR AS THE AUDITOR/MONITOR, THEY CAN ALSO BE INVOLVED IN HOW THAT COMPLAINT IS ACTUALLY CATEGORIZED FOR INVESTIGATION. THEY CAN ALSO BE — BECAUSE THEY’RE PART OF THE ONGOING PROCESS OF THE INVESTIGATION, THEY CAN ALSO BE INVOLVED TO SOME EXTENT IN THE INVESTIGATION WITH RESPECT TO EITHER HOW THAT CASE IS GOING TO BE ASSIGNED FOR INVESTIGATION, WHAT THE PLAN IS TO INVESTIGATE THAT COMPLAINT, AND I’M TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THOSE COMPLAINTS CAN GET VERY COMPLEX AND THE TYPE OF INVESTIGATION THAT’S NEEDED TO DO A THOROUGH JOB. THEY CAN OBSERVE THE INTERVIEWS OF THE — NOT JUST THE CIVILIANS, THE WITNESSES, BUT ALSO THE OFFICERS AS WELL. AND THEY CAN ACTUALLY BE A PART OF THE EVIDENCE COLLECTION IN THAT IF YOU’RE PARTICIPATING IN THE INTAKE PROCESS YOU’RE ACTUALLY — SOMETIMES THE COMPLAINANT IS GOING TO BRING YOU EVIDENCE THERE. THEY’RE GOING TO BRING YOU PICTURES ON THEIR CAMERA, BRING YOU COPIES OF MEDICAL RECORDS, THEY’RE GOING TO BRING YOU INFORMATION THAT IS ACTUALLY CONSIDERED EVIDENCE COLLECTION. BUT YOU’RE DOING THIS AS AS THE AUDITOR/MONITOR. YOU DON’T HAVE THAT INVESTIGATIVE AUTHORITY. YOU’RE ACTUALLY COLLECTING THAT TO TURN OVER YOUR TO OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS WHO WILL BE THE ONES THAT ARE ACTUALLY DOING THE INVESTIGATION. REPORT WRITING. YOU CAN ESTABLISH PROTOCOLS FOR THE TYPES OF REPORTS. DO YOU WANT QUARTERLY REPORTS FROM YOUR AUDITOR/MONITOR? DO YOU WANT ANNUAL REPORTS? DO YOU WANT REPORTS AFTER EACH OF THE INCIDENTS OR JUST LIE-PROFILE INCIDENTS? INVOLVED IN THE ANALYSIS OF THE COMPLAINTS, THE DATA COLLECTION IS VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE USUALLY WHEN YOU’RE MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS YOU’RE ALSO — YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS ARE OFTENTIMES SUPPORTED BYE-BYE THE ANALYSIS YOU DO ON THE TYPE OF COMPLAINTS. FOR INSTANCE, IF YOU ARE SEEING A PARTICULAR TYPE OF COMPLAINT MAYBE IN — I’LL JUST USE AN EXAMPLE — RUDENESS COMPLAINTS. WHAT IS IT — WHAT IS IT THAT THE DEPARTMENT IS DOING TO ADDRESS THESE TYPES OF COMPLAINTS? IF YOU ARE SEEING A SPIKE IN THOSE? WE DID A STUDY IN THE CITY OF TUCSON EARLY ON WHERE WE WERE SEEING A LOT OF RUDENESS COMPLAINTS THAT WERE FALLING WITHIN AN OFFICER’S TENURE BETWEEN FIVE AND EIGHT YEARS OF BEING ON THE FORCE. IT WAS LIKE, WHY IS THIS? IS THAT THE POINT IN THE OFFICER’S CAREER WE WANT THEM TO GO BACK AND GET ADDITIONAL TRAINING? THERE’S A LOT OF THINGS THAT COME OUT THAT CAN BE PART OF YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS IF YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO THE ANALYSIS OF THE COMPLAINTS AND THE DAY AYOU’RE LOOKING AT. — AND THE DATA YOU’RE LOOKING AT. STRENGTHS. HERE AGAIN, IDENTIFYING ISSUES ON HOW THE COMPLAINTS ARE HANDLED FROM START TO FINISH. YOU CAN IDENTIFY THE SYSTEMIC ISSUES FOR TRAINING, POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS, SUPERVISION, IF YOU ARE DRILLING DOWN TO ALL LEVELS HOW YOU CAN EVALUATE A COMPLAINT AND WHAT IT MAY HAVE STEMMED FROM. SOMETIMES IT’S BECAUSE IT’S SUPERVISION. SOMETIMES YOU’RE SEEING COMPLAINTS IN ONE PARTICULAR SQUAD OR ONE PARTICULAR UNIT. ARE THOSE THE AREAS YOU NEED TO CONCENTRATE ON THAT AS THE AUDITOR OR MONITOR YOU HAVE ACCESS TO ALL THAT INFORMATION AND ALL THAT COMPLAINTS — ALL THE COMPLAINTS, YOU CAN MAKE THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS WITH GOOD FOUNDATION. ASSESSING THE EFFECTIVENESS OF EARLY INTERVENTION SYSTEMS TO SEE HOW EFFECTIVE THOSE ARE IN ADDRESSING COMPLAINTS. AND THEN THERE’S THAT ALSO ABILITY TO GARNER THE COMMUNITY TRUST BECAUSE PART OF THE AUDITOR’S MODEL, AND I DON’T HAVE IT IN THESE SLIDES, BUT IS ALSO A CRITICAL OUTREACH COMPONENT, TOO, THAT YOU ALSO HAVE TO ESTABLISH THOSE RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE STAKEHOLDERS IN THE COMMUNITY AS WELL. SOME OF THE CHALLENGES WITH THIS PARTICULAR MODEL IS BASICALLY WHAT’S ALSO PART OF THE STRENGTHS, BECAUSE IF YOU’RE CHARGED WITH COLLECTING THE DATA AND THE REPORTING TRENDS YOU NEED TO HAVE THE APPROPRIATE STAFF AND RESOURCES TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT BECAUSE YOU’RE GETTING VOLUMES AND VOLUMES OF INFORMATION. YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE ADEQUATE STAFF WITH THAT LEVEL OF KNOWLEDGE TO BE ABLE TO MEET THAT — THOSE REQUIREMENTS. IDENTIFYING, AGAIN, PATTERNS AND TRENDS REQUIRES EXTENSIVE DATA ANALYSIS. SOME OF THE LARGER ENTITIES, EVEN SOME OF THOSE THAT MILTON MENTIONED, A LOT OF THEM HAVE RESEARCH ANALYSTS ON STAFF AS PART OF THEIR AUDITOR/MONITORING TEAM.>>Mayor Gallego: COUNCILWOMAN PASTOR, DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION?>>Councilwoman Pastor: YES, YOU SPEAK OF STAFF. WHAT WOULD THE COST BE — YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT STAFF, AND WHO — I ASSUME I KNOW WHO DETERMINES WHAT THAT MODEL LOOKS LIKE OR WHAT — WHERE THE RESOURCES COME FROM, BUT WHERE DO THESE MODELS LIVE? IN WHAT DEPARTMENT OR WHAT AREA DO THEY LIVE IN?>>SO I THINK THAT’S SOMETHING THAT YOU’RE GOING TO ADDRESS WITH SOME OF THE OTHER SLIDES BUT — BUT THE CITY OF TUCSON, AND MOST OF THEM, ARE REPORTING TO EITHER, DEPENDING ON YOUR STRUCTURE, YOUR GOVERNMENTAL STRUCTURE, THEY’RE EITHER REPORTING TO THE CITY MANAGER OR TO THE MAYOR OFFICE. MOST OF THE MODELS PHYSICALLY TRY TO BE LOCATED OUTSIDE OF CITY HALL SO IT’S A COMFORTABLE ENVIRONMENT FOR YOUR COMPLAINANTS TO COME FORWARD. THE STRUCTURE, IT DEPENDS ON THE LEVEL OF AUTHORITY THAT YOU’RE CREATING AS FAR AS WHAT TYPE OF RESOURCES YOU’RE GOING TO NEED.>>Councilwoman Pastor: RESOURCES IN THE SENSE OF MONEY?>>RESOURCES — YES, MONEY — MONEY GETS YOU THE STAFFING. EXACTLY.>>Councilwoman Pastor: THANK YOU. DID I COVER EVERYTHING ON THAT? I THINK I DID. SO THE INVESTIGATIVE AUTHORITY MODELS. THIS ONE IS PROBABLY THE MOST INTENSIVE RESOURCE-WISE. THINK OF NEW YORK CITY, SAN FRANCISCO, NEW YORK CITY HAS FULL INVESTIGATIVE MODEL. SO DOES SAN FRANCISCO. A COUPLE OF OTHER AGENCIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY HAVE SEMI INVESTIGATIVE MODELED FOR DIFFERENT TYPES OF COMPLAINTS. BUT THIS ONE COMPLETELY DOES NOT DEPEND ON YOUR INTERNAL AFFAIRS OR OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS DEPARTMENTS. THEY DO THE OVERSIGHT — THE OVERSIGHT ENTITY DOES THE INVESTIGATION FROM START TO FINISH. THEY CONDUCT THE INTERVIEWS OF THE WITNESSES, INCLUDING CIVILIANS AND THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS, THEY GATHER THE EVIDENCE AND THEY PREPARE THE INVESTIGATIVE REPORTS. THEY CAN MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR FINDINGS AS TO WHETHER THE EVIDENCE SUPPORTS THE ALLEGATION AND THE COMPLAINT, AND IN SOME CASES, DEPENDING ON THE ORDINANCE OR THE CHARTER OR — EVEN THE STATE THAT THEY’RE OPERATING IN, THEY CAN MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS AND IMPOSE DISCIPLINE, BUT IT IS — SORRY I DON’T HAVE A PERCENTAGE FOR YOU, BUT THAT IS NOT VERY COMMON. IT’S ONLY, LIKE I SAID, THERE’S ONLY A FEW ENTITIES THAT ACTUALLY HAVE THE FULL INVESTIGATIVE MODEL. SO THAT’S — THE IMPOSING DISCIPLINE PART IS VERY UNIQUE. THERE’S NOT VERY MANY OVERSIGHT ENTITIES THAT HAVE THAT LEVEL OF AUTHORITY. SO THE STRENGTHS HERE ARE, OBVIOUSLY, FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE COMMUNITY THAT YOU’RE TAKING THE COMPLAINTS COMPLETELY OUT OF THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY’S HANDS BECAUSE THE INVESTIGATION IS DONE COMPLETELY OUTSIDE OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. SO THAT LEVEL OF TRUST THAT YOU’RE BUILDING WITH THE COMMUNITY THAT SOMEBODY OUTSIDE OF THE DEPARTMENT IS ACTUALLY CONDUCTING THOSE INVESTIGATIONS. IT AVOIDS SOME OF THOSE INHERENT CONFLICTS THAT SOME PEOPLE PERCEIVE ARE KIND OF CHALLENGES TO OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS WHERE THE STAFF IN THERE — IN SOME AGENCIES, POLICE AGENCIES, THEY ROTATE IN THERE, BUT BASICALLY THEY ARE THERE OWN OFFICERS FROM WITHIN THEIR STAFF. SOMETIMES ARE THOSE ARE PERCEIVED AS CONFLICTS FOR THE CREDIBILITY OF THOSE DEPARTMENTS. THE CHALLENGES ARE OBVIOUSLY — THIS IS PROBABLY THE MOST EXPENSIVE MODEL TO IMPLEMENT. THE SIZE OF THE STAFF AND COST NEEDED OF — TO RUN THE AGENCY. YOU ALSO HAVE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE ACCESS, IF YOU’RE GOING TO DO COMPLETE INVESTIGATIONS, YOU HAVE TO HAVE ACCESS TO EVERYTHING. YOU HAVE TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE BODY-WORN CAMERA VIDEO, YOU HAVE TO HAVE ACCESS FROM THE VIDEO, ALL THE RADIO TRANSMISSIONS,OLOGY THE STUFF THAT YOUR OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS DOES RIGHT NOW TO CONDUCT AN INVESTIGATION YOUR OVERSIGHT ENTITY IS GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE THAT ACCESS IF THEY ARE GOING TO BE A FULL INVESTIGATIVE MODEL. SOME OF THE CHALLENGES ARE ALSO THE POLICE DEPARTMENTS ARE ALSO RESISTANT TO TO HAVING NONPOLICE INVESTIGATORS CONDUCTING INVESTIGATIONS. THAT’S THE PUSH BACK FULL INVESTIGATIVE MODELS GET. ESPECIALLY MODELS THAT HAVE ANY KIND OF AUTHORITY, LIKE SUBPOENA AUTHORITY OR THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE DISCIPLINE RECOMMENDATIONS, THOSE ARE THINGS THAT ARE USUALLY CHALLENGED, LEGALLY CHALLENGED.>>Mayor Gallego: COUNCILWOMAN STARK.>>Councilwoman Stark: THANK YOU. SO IS THERE SOME TYPE OF BACKGROUND YOU NEED TO HAVE TO BE ON AN OVERSIGHT COUNCIL OR ORGANIZATION? DO YOU HAVE — IS THERE TRAINING? OR IS THERE SOME KIND OF JOB DESCRIPTION, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM?>>COUNCILMEMBER STARK, WHEN I WAS FIRST APPOINTED TO THIS POSITION MY CITY MANAGER AT THAT TIME SAID THERE’S NO — THERE’S NO BLUEPRINT, THERE’S NO HOW-TO ON THIS. IT WAS CREATED. MY BACKGROUND IS CIVIL RIGHTS. I WAS A CIVIL RIGHTS INVESTIGATOR FOR THE ARIZONA ATTORNEY GENERAL’S OFFICE. A LOT OF THE HEADS OF THESE AGENCIES HAVE A LAW BACKGROUND. I MEAN, MOST OF THEM ARE LAWYERS. THE INVESTIGATORS ARE — THAT ARE ASSIGNED TO THESE AGENCIES USUALLY HAVE EITHER SOME TYPE OF INVESTIGATIVE EXPERIENCE — WHAT I HAVE FOUND THAT THE INVESTIGATORS THAT HAVE WORKED FOR ME, I MEAN, ANY KIND OF A BACKGROUND IN LOOKING AT LIKE PERSONS THAT — CIVIL RIGHTS TYPES OF COMPLAINTS ARE VERY HELPFUL. BUT THERE’S A VARIETY — WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT — ESPECIALLY FOR THE OUTREACH PORTION OF IT YOU WANT INDIVIDUALS THAT ACTUALLY HAVE A BACKGROUND IN WORKING WITH THE DISADVANTAGED POPULATIONS AND [INAUDIBLE] KNOW WHO IN THE COMMUNITY YOU HAVE TO ENGAGE WITH TO ADDRESS ISSUES, THESE ARE ISSUES THAT ARE HIGH PRIORITY OR HIGHLY VISIBLE OR ISSUES YOU MAY NOT EVEN KNOW ABOUT. SO THE OUTREACH INDIVIDUALS ASSIGNED TO SOME OF THESE AGENCIES ARE VERY BENEFICIAL AND THEY USUALLY HAVE THAT — COME FROM AN ADVOCACY TYPE OF POSITION. SO THE HYBRID MODEL IS KIND OF A LITTLE BIT OF CONSIDERING WHAT WORKS BEST FOR YOUR COMMUNITY, BECAUSE OVERSIGHT IS NOT REALLY A ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL APPROACH. WHEN I MENTION I GET THESE CALLS EVERY SINGLE DAY, AND I’M ALWAYS ASKED, WELL, WHAT IS THE BEST MODEL, AND IT’S LIKE WE DO NOT REALLY — AS AN ORGANIZATION WE NEVER ENDORSE A BEST PRACTICES MODEL BECAUSE THE CONDITIONS IN EVERY COMMUNITY MAY BE UNIQUE TO THAT COMMUNITY. YOU NEED TO ESTABLISH SOME OF THE ESSENTIAL PARTS OF THE OVERSIGHT MODEL BUT THE CONDITIONS OF WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH MAY BE VERY DIFFERENT FROM ONE COMMUNITY TO THE NEXT. SO REALLY EMPOWERING YOUR OVERSIGHT ENTITY WITH A COMBINATION OF MODELS AND AUTHORITY THAT BEST MEETS THE NEEDS OF YOUR COMMUNITY AND WHAT YOU’RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH IS THE BEST MODEL. I ANSWERED MY QUESTION BEFORE I — TEND TO GET AHEAD OF MYSELF IN MY SLIDES. I APOLOGIZE. I BELIEVE WE’RE AT THE POINT OF ANSWERING QUESTIONS.>>Mayor Gallego: COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA.>>Councilman Garcia: SO WE’RE IN A POSITION WHERE WE REALLY NEED THIS, RIGHT? LAST YEAR WE WERE THE DEADLIEST POLICE DEPARTMENT IN THE COUNTRY. AND SO MY QUESTION IS A LITTLE BIT ON THE — [INDISCERNIBLE] IN ONE OF THE MODELS AND I WANT TO KNOW HOW IN OTHER MODELS THE EIS COMMUNICATES WITH THE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE. WE’RE ALSO STILL FIGURING OUT THE EIS. SO WE ARE FIGURING OUT BOTH THINGS AS WE GO ALONG BUT ONE OF THE THINGS I’M INTERESTED IN IS HOW THEY’RE GOING TO COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER.>>THE OVERSIGHT ENTITY WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT –>>WITH THE EARLY INTERVENTION SYSTEM. HOW DO THEY COMMUNICATE WITH SOME OF THESE COMMITTEES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.>>A LOT OF THE AGENCIES THAT ACTUALLY HAVE EARLY INTERVENTION SYSTEMS, THAT’S PART OF THE DATA THAT YOU’RE COLLECTING. BECAUSE IF YOU’RE THE OVERSIGHT ENTITY YOU SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO NOT NECESSARILY — YOU DON’T ACTUALLY HAVE TO HAVE ACCESS TO, LIKE, THE NAMES OF THE INDIVIDUAL OFFICERS THAT ARE BEING REFERRED TO IN THE EARLY INTERVENTION SYSTEM BUT YOU WANT TO BE PART OF THE DECISION AS FAR AS WHAT TRIGGERS YOU ARE GOING TO PUT IN PLACE WITH EARLY INTERVENTION SYSTEMS, LIKE, IS IT “X” NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS IN A PARTICULAR CATEGORY. I BELIEVE THE OVERSIGHT ENTITY PLAYS A CRITICAL ROLE IN WHAT YOUR EXPECTATIONS ARE AS FAR AS WHAT ARE THE CHECKS AND BALANCES THAT YOU WANT TO BUILD INTO YOUR OVERSIGHT — INTO YOUR SYSTEM, YOUR EARLY INTERVENTION SYSTEM. I WILL TELL YOU THAT THE CITY OF TUCSON — FROM MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, WE HAD EARLY ON AN EARLY INTERVENTION SYSTEM, AND I WOULD GET, LIKE, REGULAR REPORTS, JUST NUMBERS, OF HOW OFTEN OFFICERS WERE BEING REFERRED TO AS WELL AS INSTANCES OF REPEAT COMPLAINTS IN PARTICULAR CATEGORIES AND THOSE ARE THE ONES WE WOULD FLAG FOR FOLLOW-UP. WE WENT THROUGH SEVERAL MODIFICATIONS OF THE TYPE OF EARLY INTERVENTION SYSTEM THAT WE HAD BECAUSE OF DIFFERENT CHALLENGES IN THE RECORDKEEPING ON THAT, BUT I BELIEVE IT SHOULD WORK VERY HAND IN HAND WITH YOUR OVERSIGHT ENTITY BECAUSE IT’S REALLY PART OF THE PROCESS IF YOU’RE LOOKING AT PATTERNS.>>Councilman Garcia: A QUICK FOLLOW-UP ON HOW TUCSON FUNCTIONS AND TO JUST TO CLARIFY. YOU WERE STAFF — BASICALLY ESSENTIAL STAFF OF THE CITY. THEN WHO IS THE COORDINATOR — HOW WOULD YOU COMMUNICATE? OR WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE BOARD? THEY DECIDE WHAT YOU LOOKED AT OR [INAUDIBLE] HOW DID THAT WORK?>>GOOD QUESTION. THE BOARD ITSELF WAS BASICALLY INDEPENDENT OF MY OFFICE. I DIDN’T REPORT TO THEM AND THEY DIDN’T REPORT TO ME, BUT I ASSISTED THEM IN THEIR EFFORTS OF WHAT THEY WANTED TO LOOK AT. THE BOARD MET ON A MONTHLY BASIS BECAUSE OF THAT CRITICAL TIME THAT THEY ONLY HAD TWO HOURS ONCE A MONTH. OUR DEPARTMENT WOULD GIVE THEM A LEST. THE OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS WOULD GIVE THEM A MONTHLY CLOSED LIST OF CASES THAT WERE CLOSED, BECAUSE THEIR LEVEL OF AUTHORITY IS THEY CAN ONLY LOOK A A COMPLAINT ONCE IT IS COMPLETELY DONE. SO THE CHAIR OF THE BOARD WOULD ACTUALLY PICK THREE CASES A MONTH THAT THEY MAY WANT TO LOOK AT. SOMETIMES THEY WOULD SAY, WE WANT TO LOOK AT THREE USE OF FORCE COMPLAINTS OR WE WANT TO LOOK AT THREE RUDENESS COMPLAINTS. IT WAS COMPLETELY UP TO THEM WHAT CASE THEY WANTED TO LOOK AT. AND ALL THE INFORMATION THAT FROM INVESTIGATION, THE WHOLE INVESTIGATIVE FILE, WAS COPIED. WE USED TO DO IT ON PAPER AND THEN WE WENT TO [INAUDIBLE] AND THEY HAD ALL THAT INFORMATION A MONTH AHEAD. THEY HAD A WHOLE MONTH TO REVIEW IT FOR THE NEXT MEETING AND THAT WAS THE COMPLAINT — THOSE INVESTIGATES WERE GOING TO BE REVIEWED AT THAT MEETING. NOW IF THE BOARD FELT THAT THE TOPIC OR THE ISSUE OF THE COMPLAINT WAS SOMETHING THAT THEY NEEDED ADDITIONAL — LIKE A SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT ON, SOMETIMES THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WOULD BRING IN SOMEBODY, MAYBE IT WAS A TRAINING ISSUE, THEY WOULD BRING IN SOMEBODY FROM [INAUDIBLE] TO PROVIDE THEM WITH THAT LEVEL OF TRAINING THAT THEY NEEDED TO HAVE TO BE ABLE TO THOROUGHLY REVIEW THE COMPLAINT OR MAYBE THEY NEEDED SOMEONE FROM MY OFFICE. MY OFFICE WAS ALWAYS PRESENT AT THE MEETINGS BECAUSE FOR THE MOST PART THE COMPLAINTS THAT THEY WERE LOOKING AT WERE ONES THAT THE AUDITOR — THAT WE HAD ALWAYS LOOKED AT, BECAUSE WE LOOKED AT ALL OF THEM A HUNDRED PERCENT, AND THEY’RE ONLY LOOKING AT A SMALLER FRACTION.>>City Mgr. Zuercher: IF I RECALL RIGHT, MR. ORTEGA, THE BOARD WAS ACTUALLY CREATED BEFORE THE STAFF WAS CREATED, RIGHT? WEREN’T THEY SEPARATELY CREATED? WHICH I THINK IS A LITTLE — YOU PROBABLY WANT TO DO THEM AT THE SAME TIME –>>PROBABLY WANT — THE CITY OF TUCSON WAS KIND OF UNIQUE IN THAT IN 1985, I BELIEVE, THEY CREATED A — IT WAS CALLED A POLICE ADVISORY REVIEW BOARD, AND THEY WERE APPOINTED BY MAYOR AND COUNCIL. THEY HAD BEEN IN EXISTENCE FOR SEVERAL YEARS BEFORE 1985. AT THAT POINT MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY HAD GONE BEFORE THE CITY COUNCIL SAYS WE WANT MORE OF A PERMANENT TYPE OF A OVERSIGHT ENTITY, WHATEVER IT WAS AT THAT TIME, BUT WE ALSO WANTED TO HAVE THE BOARD INTACT AS WELL BECAUSE WE WANTED THE COMMUNITY TO STILL HAVE ACCESS TO THE BOARD IN AN OPEN SETTING WITH RESPECT TO BEING ABLE TO HAVE PUBLIC MEETINGS AND SO FORTH, BUT WE ALSO WANT THE PROFESSIONAL STAFF THAT ALSO DOES THIS ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS. SO, YES, CORRECTLY, WHAT THEY DID WAS THEY KIND OF RESTRUCTURED THE BOARD AT THAT POINT SO THAT ONLY THE INDIVIDUALS ON THE BOARD THAT WERE APPOINTED BY MAYOR AND COUNCIL HAD A VOTE. PRIOR TO THAT IT WAS KIND OF A MIX OF THE BOARD APPOINTED INDIVIDUALS AND ALSO SOME OF THE LAW ENFORCEMENT INDIVIDUALS FROM THE OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS, THEY HAD A VOTE. SO THEY UNDID THAT AND MADE IT A COMPLETELY COMMUNITY-DRIVEN BOARD AND THEN CREATED THE AUDITOR. BUT THEY DID IT BOTH AT THE SAME TIME.>>Councilman Garcia: WHAT WAS THE COMPOSITION OF YOUR STAFF? CAN YOU COMPARE THAT TO THE OFFICE [INAUDIBLE]>>THE CITY OF TUCSON HAS ABOUT 900 OFFICERS. MY STAFF INITIALLY IT WAS JUST MYSELF AND AN ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT. WE QUICKLY SAW THAT WAS PROBABLY NOT GOING TO — NOT VERY SUSTAINABLE. I HAD — IT’S PROBABLY NOT RELEVANT TO THIS CONVERSATION, BUT I WAS FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO ALSO TAKE ON THE OFFICE OF EQUAL OPPORTUNITY PROGRAM FOR THE CITY OF TUCSON. SO I WAS THE DIRECTOR OVER BOTH. SO I ALSO BROUGHT IN ADDITIONAL INVESTIGATIVE STAFF. SO AT THAT TIME AT ONE POINT, ANY HEIGHT OF THE STAFFING PRIOR TO THE RECESSION, I HAD ABOUT SEVEN INVESTIGATORS AND A PERSON THAT DID OUTREACH AND SOMEBODY THAT ACTUALLY COULD DO THE DATA ANALYSIS FOR ME. BUT THAT WAS BECAUSE WE WERE COMBINING MULTIPLE DEPARTMENTS. TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION MORE SPECIFICALLY ABOUT MORE OF THE SUCCESSFUL OFFICE, I BELIEVE YOU MET WITH DENVER. BUT THEY HAVE OVERSIGHT OVER DENVER POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THE DENVER COUNTY POLICE OFFICERS, SHERIFF’S DEPARTMENT, BASICALLY, AND THE JAILS. THEY HAVE A STAFF OF, I BELIEVE, IT’S CLOSE TO 30, MAYBE ABOUT 32 EMPLOYEES. THEY HAVE A MONITOR, TWO DEPUTY MONITORS, AND MULTIPLE INVESTIGATORS AND OUTREACH INDIVIDUALS. SO I WOULD SAY THAT DENVER PROBABLY COMPARES SIZE-WISE VERY CLOSE TO PHOENIX, ALTHOUGH THEY HAVE THOSE EXTRA RESPONSIBILITIES WITH RESPECT TO THE COUNTY SHERIFF’S DEPARTMENT AND THE JAILS. AND SAN JOSE AS WELL AS AN AUDITOR FORM. SAN JOSE HAS A STAFF OF SIX, I BELIEVE. THEY HAVE AN AUDITOR, A DEPUTY MONITOR, AN OUTREACH PERSON AND A COUPLE OF INVESTIGATORS WITH PROBABLY CLOSE TO 28 OFFICERS.>>Mayor Gallego: COUNCILWOMAN PASTOR.>>Councilwoman Pastor: YOU MENTIONED THE EIS SYSTEM WORKS CLOSELY WITH THE MODEL. WE’RE IN THE PROCESS OF LOOKING AT THAT, OR PURCHASING NEW SOFTWARE, AND SO I KIND OF LIKE — THAT KIND OF LIKE GOT ME THINKING OF IN IN THE SENSE WE’RE JUST BARELY HAVING A CONVERSATION ABOUT A MODEL, AND HOW WOULD, THEN, OUR EIS SYSTEM WORK HAND IN HAND WITH ALSO THE MODEL YOU WERE SPEAKING OF? SO MY MIND IS MOVING VERY RAPIDLY IN THE SENSE OF WE’RE TRYING TO BUILD — WE’RE BUILDING AS WE’RE MOVING, AND WE’RE TRYING TO ALSO IMPLEMENT [INAUDIBLE] EIS MODEL, AND WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? WHAT DO WE NEED TO LOOK FOR AND PUT IN?>>IF I MAY, I THINK ONE OF THE BIGGEST FACTORS YOU ALSO WANT TO LOOK AT IS IT’S GOING TO WORK HAND IN HAND WITH OR CLOSELY WITH YOUR OVERSIGHT ENTITY, I THINK YOU NEED TO KEEP IN MIND YOUR EARLY INTERVENTION SYSTEM IS NOT ALWAYS ABOUT JUST COMPLAINTS. THERE’S OTHER THINGS GOING INTO THAT SYSTEM. SO YOU HAVE TO — WHATEVER SOFTWARE YOU CREATE, YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THERE’S THAT LEVEL OF CONFIDENTIALITY THAT’S BUILT INTO THE SYSTEM SO THERE’S NOT NECESSARILY SHARING ANYTHING WITH THE OVERSIGHT ENTITY THAT DOESN’T NEED TO BE SHARED IF IT’S NOT RELATED TO A COMPLAINT. I THINK THOSE WERE SOME OF THE CHALLENGES FOR MY OFFICE EARLY ON. I DIDN’T WANT TO SEE INFORMATION ABOUT AN OFFICER THAT WAS THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR CONTACT WITH THE COMMUNITY OR A COMPLAINT. SO WHATEVER THE SOFTWARE IS, AND I’M SURE IT’S COME A LONG WAY SINCE THE ONE WE USED WAY BACK WHEN, BUT I THINK — THE REPORTING MECHANISM IS GOING TO BE IMPORTANT. WHAT KIND OF REPORTS ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO SHARE AND STILL MAINTAIN THAT LEVEL OF CONFIDENCE WHICH WILL TEA THAT IS GOING TO BE IMPORTANT.>>SO IF I COULD ADD TO THAT, IN CINCINNATI WE HAD AN EARLY INTERVENTION [INAUDIBLE] AND WE ALSO HAD A CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT. THE BOARD DID RECEIVE STATISTICAL INFORMATION FROM EARLY INTERVENTION. NEVER SAW A NAME. THEY JUST SAW PURE STATISTICS ON OFFICERS. HOW MANY TIMES WAS THIS OFFICER FLAGGED WITHIN THE WAY THE EARLY INTERVENTION SET UP? IT WAS NOT MEANT TO BE PUNITIVE. BECAUSE EARLY INTERVENTION IS ALLOWING THE POLICE ADMINISTRATION TO HELP ADDRESS SOMETHING GOING ON WITH THAT OFFICER. THE QUESTION THE BOARD WOULD POSE IS OKAY, WE’RE LOOKING AT 202 AND WITHIN THE LAST SIX MONTHS THERE IS SEVEN FLAGS. WHAT DID YOU DO ABOUT THE FLAGS THAT YOU SAW? THAT ALLOWED THE BOARD TO ENGAGE, AGAIN, NOT NAMES, BECAUSE IT WAS CONFIDENTIAL, SIMPLY MAKING SURE THAT SOMEONE WAS COMMUNICATING WITH THAT OFFICER ABOUT WHAT THAT PICTURE WAS LOOKING LIKE. AND SO THAT’S HOW IT WAS SOLD. IT WAS PART OF THE NEGOTIATED CONSENT DECREE THAT WE HAD, BUT BECAUSE IT WAS CONFIDENTIAL AND BECAUSE OFFICERS KNEW THEIR NAMES [INAUDIBLE] IT DIDN’T REALLY MATTER WHAT THE PERSON’S NAME WAS. IT’S WHAT IS THE PICTURE YOU ARE SEEING AND WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?>>Mayor Gallego: ANY ADDITIONAL COUNCILMEMBER QUESTIONS?>>Councilman DiCiccio: MAYOR?>>Mayor Gallego: COUNCILMAN DICICCIO.>>Councilman DiCiccio: THANK YOU, MAYOR. THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION. DEFINITELY VERY EXTENSIVE. MY QUESTION IS MORE TO THE CITY MANAGER, AND I’LL KEEP MY QUESTIONS SHORT HERE. ED, AND THE REASON I’M ASKING YOU, BECAUSE YOU’RE IN CHARGE OF THE CITY, I ASKED FOR R A REPORT YESTERDAY THAT BASICALLY SAID HOW MANY TIMES WAS THE CHIEF OVERTURNED WHERE SHE ASKED FOR AND EXPECTED HARSHER PENALTIES ON POLICE OFFICERS? AND WHEN THE PENALTY WAS ACTUALLY REDUCED AFTERWARDS. IT LOOKS LIKE 54% OF THE TIME, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, SHE WAS OVERTURNED OR OUR POLICE CHIEF WAS OVERTURNED IN THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS. WHEREAS IN THE CIVILIAN SIDE THEY UPHELD THE HARSHER PENALTIES ABOUT 74% OF THE TIME. WHAT SPECIFIC CASES, BECAUSE I’VE DONE A TON OF RESEARCH ON THIS, WHAT SPECIFIC CASES DO YOU KNOW OF THAT THE CITY OF PHOENIX METED FROM THE POLICE CHIEF OR EVEN ONE OF THE OTHER BOARDS THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE HARSH? WHAT CASE HAVE WE FAILED AT? WHAT SPECIFIC CASES HAVE WE FAILED THE? WHERE THE POLICE CHIEF DIDN’T DO HER JOB OR HIS JOB AT THE TIME.>>City Mgr. Zuercher: I’M TRYING TO PROCESS THE QUESTION. SO YOU’RE ASKING WHERE –>>Councilman DiCiccio: WHERE WILL HAVE WE FAILED?>>City Mgr. Zuercher: WHERE THE CHIEF WASN’T HARD ENOUGH ON THE OFFICERS –>>Councilman DiCiccio: NO, WHERE HAS THE POLICE CHIEF FAILED? IN WHAT CASES HAS SHE FAILED?>>City Mgr. Zuercher: I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK — I DON’T — I DON’T KNOW THAT — THAT’S NOT THE APPROACH I’M SPEAKING TO. I THINK THE CHIEF DISCIPLINE TAKES INTO ACCOUNT ALL SORTS OF INFORMATION.>>Councilman DiCiccio: RIGHT.>>City Mgr. Zuercher: BUT HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO GET AT HERE.>>Councilman DiCiccio: WHAT I’M TRYING TO GET AT, DO WE HAVE A BROKEN SYSTEM? DO WE HAVE A CORRUPT SYSTEM? WHERE HAS THE POLICE CHIEF FAILED TO ADDRESS THE CONCERNS — NOT THE CONCERNS — WHERE HAS THE POLICE CHIEF FAILED TO METE AND TO DELIVER THE PENALTIES ON A POLICE OFFICER WHO WAS INAPPROPRIATE? WHERE HAS SHE FAILED ONLY?>>City Mgr. Zuercher: I DON’T KNOW –>>Councilman DiCiccio: SINCE SHE HAS BEEN THERE. LOOK, WE’RE TRYING –>>City Mgr. Zuercher: I DON’T HAVE ANYTHING OFF THE TOP OF MY MIND.>>Councilman DiCiccio: THERE IS NONE. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS SHE HAS NOT FAILED.>>CITY MGR. ZUERCHER: NO, SHE HAS NOT FAILED.>>Councilman DiCiccio: IF ANYTHING SHE HAS BEEN MORE HARSH THAN WHAT SHE SHOULD HAVE PERSON BECAUSE 50% OF THE TIME SHE IS OVERTURNED. WHEREAS IN OTHER DEPARTMENTS SHE’S NOT — THOSE DEPARTMENTS ARE NEVER OVERTURNED — RARELY OVERTURNED, THREE QUARTERS OF THE TIME THEY’RE UPHELD. THE BOTTOM LINE IS I DO NOT SEE A PROBLEM HERE. IF THERE’S NO PROBLEM, WE’RE FIXING SOMETHING THAT’S NOT TRUE. SO WHAT WE’RE STARTING TO SEE HERE IS WE’VE NOT HAD ANY FAILURES IN THE SYSTEM. WE’RE HEADING DOWN A PATH THAT IS GOING TO CORRUPT OUR SYSTEM BY TAKING — BASICALLY ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS AND POLITICIZING THIS. SO WHAT WE’RE ABOUT TO SEE IS A POLITICIZATION OF THE PROCESS THAT HAS KEPT OUR CITY CLEAN OF CORRUPTION, CLEAN ALL TOGETHER, AND NOW WHAT WE’RE HEADING DOWN IS A PATH HERE THAT IS LITERALLY GOING TO PUT US IN A BAD SPOT. IT’S GOING TO BE ALL NEW GUISE OF TRANSPARENCY BUT WE CANNOT EVEN IDENTIFY A PROBLEM. WE HAVE NOT IDENTIFY ADD SINGLE PROBLEM IN THE CITY OF PHOENIX WHERE THE POLICE CHIEF HAS FAILED, NOT ONE, AND BECAUSE SHE HAS NOT FAILED. AND — THIS IS A NATIONAL MOVEMENT RIGHT NOW THAT MAKES THE POLICE OFFICERS LOOK BAD. IT’S MEANT TO CORRUPT THE SYSTEM TO WHERE INDIVIDUALS WILL BE ABLE TO TAKE OVER A POLICE DEPARTMENT AND CREATE ENOUGH NOISE AND ANXIETY IN THE PUBLIC THAT WILL CAUSE A SHIFT TO WHERE WE’RE NOT GOING TO HAVE POLICING DONE IN THE CITY OF PHOENIX THAT’S BEEN EXEMPLARY. SO MY POSITION IS THIS. IF YOU’RE GOING TO BE LOOKING TO ADD ONE MORE MEMBER — TWO MORE MEMBERS TO THE DRV AND MORE CITIZENS ON THERE, I WOULD BE OPEN TO SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IF YOU’RE LOOKING FOR POLITICAL OMBUDSMAN AND SOMETHING LIKE THAT, I WOULD BE OPEN, POSSIBLY, TO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, DEPENDING ON THE STRUCTURE. BUT NO ONE POLICE OFFICER — LISTEN TO THIS — NO ONE POLICE OFFICER’S CAREER IS LESS VALUABLE THAN THE CITY MANAGER’S, MINE, THE MAYOR, THE POLICE CHIEF’S AT ALL. THEIR SINGLE CAREER OF A POLICE OFFICER THAT COULD BE POTENTIALLY RUINED BY SOME INDIVIDUALS IS WORTH MORE IN VALUE THAN THE CAREERS OF ALL OF US PUT TOGETHER. SO THIS IS A PATH WE’RE HEADING DOWN RIGHT NOW. IT’S A POLITICIZATION OF WHAT A PROCESS THAT HAS BEEN CLEAN AND FREE OF CORRUPTION. THANK YOU, MAYOR.>>Mayor Gallego: COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA?>>Councilman Garcia: I DON’T THINK — I’M GOING TO GO BACK TO THE QUESTION. YEAH, IT’S HARD TO HEAR THAT AFTER SOME [INAUDIBLE] AND THINGS WE HAVE HE [INAUDIBLE] I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT ALSO THE PROCESS, LIKE AT SOME POINT TALKING ABOUT VICTIMS’ RIGHTS OR SOME OF THE FAILINGS THAT WE HAVE IN OUR CURRENT PROCESS. FOR EXAMPLE [INAUDIBLE] OR WITNESSES OF A SITUATION KIND OF HAVE NOWHERE TO COME TO. SO WHAT WAS THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN, LIKE, AN AUDIENCE WITH — LIKE, WAS YOUR BOARD EVER ABLE TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THE MOTHER OR SOMEONE THAT WAS AT ONE OF THE INCIDENTS?>>COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA, YES, THAT’S ACTUALLY ONE OF THE VERY IMPORTANT ROLES THAT MY ENTITY TAKES ON UNDER THE AUDITOR/MONITOR BUT ALSO THE BOARD ITSELF. BECAUSE THE BOARD HOLDS PUBLIC MEETINGS, THE COMPLAINANTS THEMSELVES OR MEMBERS OF THE FAMILY IS ABLE TO SPEAK PUBLICLY, BUT THEY’RE ALSO ABLE TO TALK TO THE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD AS WELL. THE COMPLAINANTS WOULD THAT COME DIRECTLY TO THE AUDITOR OR MONITOR, YOU ESTABLISH THAT KIND OF RELATIONSHIP THAT I ALWAYS SAID THAT MY ROLE WAS BEING AN ADVOCATE FOR THE PROCESS TO ENSURE THAT THE PROCESS WAS FAIR TO BOTH SIDES, NOT JUST THE COMPLAINANTS, BUT THE OFFICERS AS WELL, BECAUSE THAT WAS A NUMBER ONE — THE LEVEL OF CREDIBILITY THAT THE OFFICE RELIED ON. SO WHEN THE COMPLAINANTS WOULD COME DIRECTLY — IN TUCSON THEY CAN FILE THE COMPLAINT WITH THE AUDITOR OR GO DIRECTLY TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT OR THEY CAN ALSO FILE IT THROUGH THE ELECTED OFFICIAL’S OFFICE. BUT ONE OF THE ROLES THAT WE SERVED IS, YOU KNOW, THE COMPLAINANT COMING DIRECTLY TO OUR OFFICES. WE COULD ALSO KEEP THEM APPRISED OF THE STATUS OF THEIR INVESTIGATION, OBVIOUSLY NOT REVEALING ANY SPECIFICS ABOUT WHAT WITNESSES OR WHAT EVIDENCE IS BEING SHARED AT THE TIME OF THE INVESTIGATION IS GOING ONGOING, BUT WE CAN ACTUALLY LET THEM KNOW. BECAUSE THAT WAS ONE OF THE BIGGEST COMPLAINTS FOR TUCSON, WAS I FILE A COMPLAINT AND I NEVER HEARD ANYTHING IN A YEAR, IN TWO YEARS. I’VE NEVER HEARD ANYTHING. THERE’S NO FOLLOW-UP. WITH ESTABLISHING THAT TYPE OF RELATIONSHIP WITH THE COMPLAINANT AT LEAST YOU’RE GOING TO ADVOCATE THAT THE PROCESS TREATS THEM FAIRLY IS CRITICAL TO GETTING THAT LEVEL OF TRUST, AND SOMETIMES THE — THE OUTCOME IS ALWAYS WHATEVER THE FACTS SUPPORT ON A COMPLAINT. AND SO SOMETIMES THE OUTCOME OF AN INVESTIGATE HAS THIS IS A NOT SUSTAINED COMPLAINT. WE CAN’T SUBSTANTIATE IT. THE EVIDENCE DOESN’T SUPPORT YOUR — THE ALLEGATION. BUT I COULD TELL THE COMPLAINANT THAT EXACT SAME THING AND SAY, I LOOKED AT — LISTENED TO ALL THE INTERVIEWS. I OBSERVED THE INTERVIEWS. OR I HAD QUESTIONS DURING THE INTERVIEWS. I LOOKED AT THE EXACT SAME EVIDENCE COMING FROM THE PERSON FROM THE OUTSIDE WAS MORE ACCEPTING FOR THE SYSTEM — I GUESS TO ACCEPT THE FINDING VERSUS A LETTER THEY GOT FROM THE OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS THAT SAID THE OUTCOME OF YOUR COMPLAINT IS NOT SUSTAINED. WELL, THEY NEVER REALLY GET AN EXPLANATION WITH THAT. BUT THE OVERSIGHT ENTITY CAN GIVE THAT EXPLANATION AND BASICALLY NOT GO INTO A LOT OF DETAILS BUT THEY KNOW THAT OTHER SET OF EYES ACTUALLY LOOKED AT IT AND SOMEHOW THAT WAS VERY COMFORTING, IF YOU WILL, I SHOULD PROBABLY USE A DIFFERENT WORD, BUT IT WAS VERY SATISFYING TO THE COMPLAINANT.>>Councilman Garcia: THANK YOU. [INAUDIBLE] BOTH IN TUCSON AND OTHER PLACES, BEYOND JUST LOOKING AT AN INDIVIDUAL INSTANCE, DO SOME OF THESE BOARDS ALSO ADVISE POLICY? LIKE, IF THEY’RE STARTING TO SEE A PATTERN [INAUDIBLE] AND LOOKING AT –>>YES [INAUDIBLE] IT DEPENDS AGAIN THE COMMUNITY YOU’RE IN. I WILL TELL YOU LIKE WASHINGTON D.C., THEY HAVE A POLICY — THEY ACTUALLY HAVE A WHOLE PROTOCOL FOR HAVING SOME OF THEIR INVESTIGATORS ACTUALLY KIND OF LIKE MONITOR AND OBSERVE, LIKE, PROTESTS AND DEMONSTRATIONS. THAT IS WRITTEN INTO THEIR PROCEDURES. TO LOOK AT BIGGER PICTURE THINGS AND INTERACT WITH THEIR LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY ON WHAT PROTOCOLS THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY IS GOING TO USE TO POLICE THESE DIFFERENT TYPES OF EVENTS. THE SAME HAPPENS, LIKE, IN SAN FRANCISCO. THE SAME HAPPENED IN TUCSON, WITH THE OUTCOME OF DEMONSTRATIONS AND PROTESTS, WHAT LEVEL IS THE MONITOR OR THE AUDITOR GOING TO BE INVOLVED IN IN LOOKING AT ANY COMPLAINTS THAT COME OUT OF THIS EVENT AND WHAT CAN WE DO PROACTIVELY BEFORE KNOWING AN EVENT IS ABOUT TO OCCUR TO ENGAGE THE COMMUNITY AS FAR AS WHAT TYPE [INAUDIBLE] ARE WE GOING TO ADDRESS THEM. SO THERE ARE BIGGER PICTURE THINGS CAN THAT COME ON ANY GIVEN DAY. I DIDN’T MENTION THIS IN ANY OF THE SLIDES BUT IT’S ALSO VERY IMPORTANT WHEN YOU ARE WRITING YOUR ORDINANCE, WHATEVER LANGUAGE YOU PUT IN IT, TO ALSO HAVE THAT FLEXIBILITY THAT, OH, SOMETIMES IT MAY NOT JUST BE COMPLAINTS YOU ARE LOOKING AT, BUT THERE MAY BE SOME KIND OF NATIONAL EVENT THAT REQUIRES SOME KIND OF LEVEL OF INVOLVEMENT OR OVERSIGHT, AND IT BECOMES SOMETHING THAT CAN ALSO BE AN ARM, SO TO SPEAK, OF YOUR YOU CITY GOVERNMENT AND YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS [INAUDIBLE]>>Mayor Gallego: I BELIEVE COUNCILWOMAN PASTOR — SOMEONE ON MY LEFT HAD A HAND UP.>>Councilwoman Pastor: I DID. I’M JUST STRUGGLING RIGHT NOW. THE REASON WHY I’M STRUGGLING IS THERE’S A REASON WHY WE’RE HERE, AND WE’RE HERE BECAUSE THE COMMUNITY IS NOT TRUSTING THE POLICE, AND IN BEING HERE AND BEING CENTERED WHERE WE ARE, AND I REALLY WANT TO THANK MY COLLEAGUES FOR BEING PRESENT AND FOR WANTING TO TAKE ON THIS DISCUSSION, BECAUSE THAT MEANS WE’RE HERE TO DO THE WORK THAT IS NEEDED WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY, WHICH INCLUDES POLICING. JUST BECAUSE WE’RE HAVING A DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS IS NOT IMPLYING THAT IF WE MAKE ANY IMPROVEMENTS THAT — TO A STATUS QUO THAT WE’RE ANTIPOLICE OR ANTI-CHIEF WILLIAMS. WHAT IT’S INDICATING IS THAT WE ARE SUPPORTING OUR COMMUNITY. IT’S ALSO SUPPORTING OUR POLICE. AND IT’S ALSO SUPPORTING THOSE THAT FEEL [INAUDIBLE] SO WE ARE — TO ME THAT’S A COLLECTIVE OF A COMMUNITY. AND I ALSO BELIEVE AND SUPPORT THE EFFORTS THAT CHIEF WILLIAMS IS TRYING TO DO IN THE SENSE OF US HAVING THIS DIALOGUE AND DISCUSSION. AND TO BELIEVE THAT THAT — THAT IT ISN’T TRUE OR TO BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULDN’T HAVE THIS DIALOGUE AND THIS ISN’T HAPPENING IN THE COMMUNITY IS WRONG. AND IT’S COMPLETELY WRONG. WE GOT ELECTED FOR A PURPOSE. WE GOT ELECTED TO PROTECT OUR COMMUNITY. AND PROTECTING OUR COMMUNITY MEANS LISTENING TO EVERYONE. AND ALSO PROVIDING SOLUTIONS TO WHERE WE THINK THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG OR TO IMPROVE THAT IS SOMETHING GOOD, BUT THAT’S WHY WE GET ELECTED. AND TO BELIEVE THAT WE’RE HAVING THIS DIALOGUE — I HAD TO STOP FOR A MOMENT AND BREATHE IN THE SENSE OF SOMEONE WANTING TO PAINT US AS ANTI-CHIEF WILLIAMS AND ANTIPOLICE, AND I JUST WON’T ACCEPT THAT, AND I WILL STEP UP AND I’LL SHOW THAT I AM HERE TO LEAD AND THAT I AM HERE TO CREATE POLICY THAT PROTECTS EVERYONE. THANK YOU.>>Mayor Gallego: THANK YOU. ANY ADDITIONAL COUNCILMEMBER QUESTIONS? MY PROPOSAL IS THAT MILTON COMPLETE THE FIRST SECTION OF HIS PRESENTATION AND THEN WE BRIEFLY BREAK. DOES THAT WORK FOR MY COLLEAGUES? OKAY. WOULD YOU PREFER TO BREAK RIGHT NOW, THEN? ALL RIGHT. SO WE WILL TAKE A 10-MINUTE BREAK AND RECONVENE AT ABOUT 4:02.>>Mayor Gallego: WELCOME BACK. WE WILL CONTINUE WITH OUR WORK STUDY SESSION. APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE DURING THE BREAK. WE WILL TURN IT BACK TO OUR ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER MILTON DOHONEY.>>THANK YOU, MAYOR. MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, WE WANT TO MOVE ON WITH OUR DISCUSSION ON CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT. SO NEXT WE WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT OUR CURRENT COMPLAINT PROCESS, WHAT ARE WE CURRENTLY DOING? SO COMPLAINTS COME IN A VARIETY OF WAYS. WE’VE MENTIONED EARLIER IN THE MEETING THEY COME THROUGH THE MAYOR’S OFFICE, THROUGH COUNCIL OFFICES, THROUGH THE CITY MANAGER’S OFFICE, THEY COME DIRECTLY TO POLICE THEMSELVES. COMPLAINTS WOULD BE SENT TO PSB, OR THE PRECINCT, DEPENDING ON THE NATURE OF THE COMPLAINT. FOR THE BENEFIT OF PEOPLE WATCHING ON TELEVISION, RPSB IN MANY CITIES IS REFERRED TO AS INTERNAL AFFAIRS. IT’S THE SAME. PSB WOULD CONDUCT AN INVESTIGATION AND THEN THERE WILL BE A FINDING. AND THE FINDING WILL COME IN ONE OF FOUR FORMS, SUSTAINED MEANS THAT THE ALLEGATION THAT HAS BEEN PLACED AGAINST THE OFFICER, EVIDENCE INDICATES THAT IT DID OCCUR AND THE OFFICER WAS IN VIOLATION. NOT SUSTAINED MEANS THERE’S INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE TO DETERMINE IF IT OCCURRED OR NOT. EXONERATED MEANS THAT THE ACTION DID TAKE PLACE BUT IT WAS WITHIN POLICY, THEREFORE, THE OFFICER WAS EXONERATED. AND UNFOUNDED MEANS THAT THE EVIDENCE IN THE INDICATES THAT IT DID NOT OCCUR AT ALL. AS INDICATED PREVIOUSLY, AFTER THE FINDINGS HAVE BEEN DETERMINED, A LETTER IS SENT TO THE COMPLAINANT. IF THE FINDINGS ARE SUSTAINED, THEN CORRECTIVE ACTION OR DISCIPLINARY ACTION IS IN ORDER. THERE IS A DISBLUE NARY REVIEW BOARD — DISCIPLINARY VERY REVIEW WHICH I MENTIONED IN OUR MEETING JULY 2nd, AND SO THAT BOARD IS A COMBINATION OF SWORN PERSONNEL AND CITIZENS. I THINK I USED THE TERM, THINK OF IT AS A JURY POOL. SO PEOPLE WILL ROTATE OUT OF THE POOL, HEAR A CASE, AND THEN GO BACK. AND SO THE DRB, AS WE CALL IT, WOULD MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE CHIEF ON EITHER SUSPENSION, DEMOTION OR TERMINATION. THAT GOES TO THE CHIEF. THE CHIEF HAS THE OPTION OF ACCEPTING THE RECOMMENDATION FROM THE BOARD. SHE CAN LOWER THE DISCIPLINE, OR SHE CAN MAKE IT MORE SEVERE. ONCE SHE MAKES THAT DECISION AND THAT INFORMATION IS TRANSMITTED TO THE OFFICER, THE OFFICER HAS THE OPTION OF APPEALING DEMOTIONS, SUSPENSION OR TERMINATIONS TO THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD. CIVIL SERVICE BOARD IS MADE UP OF FIVE CITIZENS. THEY HAVE THEIR AUTHORITY CEDED TO IT WITHIN THE CITY CHARTER, AND SO THEY CAN EITHER AFFIRM THE ACTION THE CHIEF TOOK OR THEY CAN AMEND IT. THEY CAN REDUCE IT. THEY CAN ELIMINATE IT ALL TOGETHER. SO PARALLEL TO THE COMPLAINT PROCESS IS THE USE OF FORCE PROCESS, AND I WOULD LIKE TO WALK THROUGH THOSE STEPS FOR YOU. SO THERE IS AN APPLICATION OF FORCE, MEANING, A POLICE OFFICER HAS USED FORCE OUT ON THE STREET. THAT THEN GOES FOR INVESTIGATION BY PSB. PSB CONDUCTS THEIR INVESTIGATION, AND THERE MAY BE A CONVENING OF THE USE OF FORCE BOARD. THAT BOARD AGAIN IS SWORN PERSONNEL AND CITIZENS COMING THAT FROM JURY POOL COLLECTION THAT I’VE REFERRED TO. SO THEY ARE TRYING TO DETERMINE IF THE FORCE USED WAS WITHIN POLICY OR OUT OF POLICY THEY WILL THEN MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE CHIEF. THE CHIEF WILL LOOK AT THAT, IF THE FORCE WAS USED WITHIN POLICY, THEN THAT COMPLAINT WOULD BE CLOSED AT THAT POINT. IF IT WAS OUT OF POLICY, THEN THE DISCIPLINARY REVIEW BOARD WOULD BE TRIGGERED. AND SO THE DRB, AGAIN, SWORN AND CIVILIANS, WOULD LOOK AT IT AND MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE CHIEF. THE CHIEF WOULD EITHER ACCEPT IT OR AMEND IT, COMMUNICATE IT TO THE OFFICER, AND IF THE OFFICER TOOK ISSUE WITH THE DEMOTION, SUSPENSION OR TERMINATION, THEY COULD APPEAL TO CIVIL SERVICE. SO WHAT YOU SEE, THE SORT OF BACKWARD, UPSIDE DOWN L ON THE SCREEN, THAT’S THE BASE PROCESS. NOW I WANT TO LAYER IN A PARALLEL PROCESS THAT ALSO OCCURS. SO THE APPLICATION OF FORCE HAS HAPPENED. THE USE OF FORCE HAS TAKEN PLACE ON THE STREET. IT GOES TO PSB. SIMULTANEOUSLY, THERE IS A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION DONE, AND WHY I AM DRAWING THESE OUT SEPARATE, YOU’LL RECALL FROM THE PRIOR PRESENTATION, NONE OF THESE OVERSIGHT MODELS HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH CRIMINAL MATTERS. SO IT WOULD NOT INVOLVE WHATEVER MODEL YOU SET UP, BUT I DID WANT TO SHOW IT TO YOU. SO THE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION IS DONE, AND THEN THE CASE IS PRESENTED TO THE COUNTY ATTORNEY. THE COUNTY ATTORNEY WILL MAKE A JUDGMENT, WAS THE ACTIONS OF THE OFFICER A CRIMINAL ACT? AND IF THE COUNTY ATTORNEY SAYS YES, THEN IT WOULD GO STRAIGHT TO THE CHIEF. THERE’S NO NEED TO GO THROUGH THE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS IF THE COUNTY ATTORNEY IS SAYING A CRIMINAL ACTIVITY HAS TAKEN PLACE. SO AT THAT POINT THE CHIEF HAS TO MAKE A DECISION ABOUT THE EMPLOYMENT STATUS OF THE OFFICER IN QUESTION. SO WHO IS THE PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS BUREAU? WHAT DOES THAT CONSIST OF? THAT’S A STAFF OF 38 PEOPLE. IT’S ONE COMMANDER. IT’S FOUR LIEUTENANTS. IT’S 20 SERGEANTS, SEVEN DETECTIVES, OFFICERS, SIX ADMINISTRATIVE STAFFERS, AND THEY HAVE A TOTAL BUDGE OF $6.4 MILLION. THE KEY THING TO REMEMBER RELATIVE TO PSB IS THEY DO A LOT MORE THINGS THAN JUST INVESTIGATE CRIMINAL COMPLAINTS OF CITIZENS. IN FACT, THE MAJORITY OF THE ACTIVITIES THAT THEY’RE ENGAGED IN HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH CITIZEN COMPLAINTS. THIS IS A SNAPSHOT OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE ACTION, OR DISCIPLINARY ACTIONS, TAKEN WITHIN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IN CALENDAR YEAR 2018. THERE WAS 191 TRAININGS OR COACHINGS, 205 SUPERVISORY COUNSELINGS, 122 WRITTEN REPRIMANDS, 46 SUSPENSIONS, 21 PEOPLE RESIGNED IN LIEU OF GOING THROUGH THE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS, 15 PEOPLE RETIRED IN LIEU OF GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS, NINE RETIRED IN LIEU OF TERMINATION AND THERE WAS DISMISSAL OF THREE. SO THAT’S THE SORT OF CALENDAR PICTURE. I KNOW WE WORK ON A FISCAL YEAR JULY 1 TO JUNE 30th, SO MOST PEOPLE DON’T LOOK AT IT LIKE THAT, SO WE PUT THAT TOGETHER FOR 2018. NOW WE WANT TO GET TO THE PHOENIX-CENTERED MODELS AND BEFORE WE START IT, I WANT TO TURN IT OVER TO MARY O’GRADY TO DO THE LEGAL DISCUSSION.>>THANK YOU. AGAIN, MARY O’GRADY HERE WITH HAYLEIGH CRAWFORD. WE’VE DONE A HIGH-LEVEL REVIEW OF A VARIETY OF LEGAL AUTHORITIES SO THAT WE COULD PROVIDE ADVICE ON THESE ISSUES THAT THE COUNCIL IS CONSIDERING. YOU HAVE A PACKET THAT INCLUDES LOTS OF MATERIALS WE HAVE LOOKED AT. SO JUST TO GIVE YOU A LIST, WE’VE LOOKED AT THE CITY CHARTER AND THE RELEVANT PROVISIONS THERE. WE’VE LOOKED AT THE STATE STATUTES WITH A PARTICULAR FOCUS ON THE PEACE OFFICERS’ BILL OF RIGHTS. WE’VE LOOKED AT CITY ORDINANCES. WE’VE LOOKED AT THE PERSONNEL RULES, CIVIL SERVICE RULES, POLICE DEPARTMENT OPERATIONS PROCEDURES THAT ARE RELEVANT HERE AND THE LABOR AGREEMENTS, THE RELEVANT LABOR AGREEMENTS. THOSE ARE, AGAIN, IN THE WRITTEN MATERIALS. I HAVE HE — IN TERMS OF OUR ORGANIZATION, I ASKED HAYLEIGH TO DO A PARTICULARLY DEEP DIVE ON THE LABOR AGREEMENTS SO THAT SHEEP UNDERSTANDS THOSE AND I’LL BE PROBABLY DOING THE BULK OF THE PRESENTATION WITH MILTON, BUT HAYLEIGH MAY RESPOND TO QUESTIONS, PARTICULARLY IF THERE ARE ANY OF ON THOSE ISSUES. AGAIN, OUR REVIEW IS FAIRLY HIGH LEVEL NOW BUT AS THE WORK GETS MORE FOCUSED, WE’LL BE ABLE TO RESPOND ACCORDINGLY. SO WITH THAT, I’LL TURN IT BACK TO MILTON FOR A DESCRIPTION OF THE CITY-CENTERED MODEL WE’RE GOING TO DISCUSS.>>WE WERE ASKED TO COME FORWARD WITH THREE SAMPLES AS IF YOU WERE ACTUALLY SETTING THEM UP IN PHOENIX. SO WE’VE LOOKED AT A MYRIAD OF MODELS ACROSS THE COUNTRY. WE’VE LOOKED AT DUTIES THAT ARE PERFORMED WITHIN THE VARIOUS OFFICES. SO WHAT WE’RE GOING TO SHOW YOU NOW IS JUST A SAMPLE. IT DOESN’T MEAN IT’S EXACTLY HOW IT WOULD ULTIMATELY BE DONE BUT IT GIVES YOU A FEEL FOR WHAT IT MIGHT LOOK LIKE. SO WE START WITH A PHOENIX REVIEW EXAMPLE. THE DUTIES OF THAT OFFICE WOULD BE TO RECEIVE COMPLAINTS, TO REVIEW COMPLETED INVESTIGATIONS — REMEMBER, WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER THE REVIEW MODEL TENDS TO GET INVESTIGATIONS ONCE IT’S TOTALLY COMPLETE — CONDUCT PUBLIC FORUMS AND SUGGEST PROCESS CHANGES ON HOW THE POLICE IS DOING THEIR BUSINESS. A POSSIBLE STAFFING RANGE IS FIVE TO TEN. BOARD SIZE, FIVE TO 25. TOTALLY AT THE DISCRETION OF CITY COUNCIL. THE ESTIMATED OPERATING COST AT A MINIMUM, $994,000, AND A MAXIMUM, $1.7 MILLION. SO THE COST RANGE I’M GIVING YOU ACCOUNTS FOR THE STAFF. IT ACCOUNTS FOR SETTING AN OFFICE UP SEPARATE FROM THE CITY HALL OR CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE FURNITURE, THE TECHNOLOGY, ALL THAT YOU WOULD DO IF YOU WERE GOING FROM SCRATCH TO CREATE AN ENTITY. THE STARTING POINT FOR THIS MODEL WOULD BE SCOPE REFINEMENT, MEANING YOU WOULD HAVE TO DECIDE, ARE THESE THE DUTIES YOU WOULD WANT THAT OFFICE TO PERFORM? OR DO YOU WANT THE OFFICE TO DO SOMETHING ELSE? YOU KNOW, WHAT KIND OF BOARD YOU WOULD WANT, ET CETERA. AND THEN THE BEGINNING OF DRAFTING THE ORDINANCE. I’LL GO BACK TO MARY NOW TO MAKE A LEGAL ANALYSIS COMMENT ON WHAT I JUST SAID.>>THANK YOU. SO ON THIS MODEL, THE CRITICAL POINT IS THAT THE REVIEW HAPPENS AFTER THE DISCIPLINARY WORK HAS BEEN DONE. SO WE TALK ABOUT THE INVESTIGATION BEING COMPLETED, BUT IT’S NOT JUST THE PSB INVESTIGATION. IT’S THE COMPLETION OF ANY DISCIPLINARY DECISIONS AND ANY APPEALS FROM THOSE DISCIPLINARY DECISIONS BEFORE THIS REVIEW HAPPENS. SO GIVEN THAT STRUCTURE, WE DON’T HAVE ANY KIND OF UNIQUE LEGAL ISSUES TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO. CERTAINLY THERE’S OPEN MEETING LAW ISSUES AND PUBLIC RECORDS ISSUES BUT NO UNIQUE LEGAL ISSUES BECAUSE AGAIN THIS MODEL WOULD NOT AFFECT DECISIONS REGARDING AN EMPLOYEE’S DISCIPLINE. IT KICKS IN AFTER THAT PROCESS HAS BEEN COMPLETED.>>SO NEXT IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE PHOENIX POLICE AUDITOR. THE SAMPLE DUTIES, RECEIVE AND REVIEW COMPLAINTS, MONITOR WITNESS AND OFFICER INTERVIEWS, MAKE POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS, MAKE TRAINING RECOMMENDATIONS, AUDIT COMPLETED INVESTIGATIONS, CONDUCT PUBLIC FORUMS, SUGGEST PROCESS CHANGES, AND PRODUCE SPECIAL REPORTS. SO ONE OF THE SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES IN THIS MODEL VERSUS THE ONE I JUST TALKED ABOUT, IT GOES BACK TO THE POINT THAT LIANA MENTIONED EARLIER, THE AUDITOR IN THIS MODEL WOULD HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO BE PRESENT WHEN POLICE ARE QUESTIONING WITNESSES OR IF OFFICERS WERE BEING INTERVIEWED. THE STAFFING RANGE IS FIVE TO 14. BO BOARD, ZERO TO 25. AN AUDITOR DOESN’T ACTUALLY HAVE TO HAVE A BOARD, BUT IT’S AN OPTION. THE COST, A LITTLE OVER A MILLION AT THE LOW END, 2.2 MILLION AT THE MAXIMUM. STARTING POINT WOULD BE SCOPE REFINEMENT AS BEFORE. ARE THESE THE DUTIES YOU WOULD WANT THE OFFICE TO DO OR SOMETHING ELSE? ORDINANCE DRAFTING. AND THEN ADDRESSING LEGAL ISSUES, AND MARY WILL COMMENT ON THOSE.>>THANKS, MILTON. THIS IS DIFFERENT, AGAIN, BECAUSE THE AUDITOR GETS INVOLVED EARLIER IN THE PROCESS, AND SO WE HAVE MORE PROCEDURAL ISSUES. AGAIN, IT CONTEMPLATES THEY WOULD BE MONITORING WITNESS INTERVIEWS. SO ALTHOUGH THE AUDITOR WOULDN’T INVOLVED WITH ANY DECISIONS REGARDING EMPLOYEE DISCIPLINE, BECAUSE THEY’RE INVOLVED AT THAT EARLY PHASE IN THE PROCESS, THERE ARE MORE PROCEDURAL ISSUES. THIS MAY BE THE CONFIDENTIALITY REQUIREMENTS THAT APPLY TO ANY DISCIPLINARY MATTER UNTIL IT IS COMPLETED, IT AFFECTS THE TIME LINES THAT ARE ESTABLISHED BY STATE LAW, THE 180 DAYS TO COMPLETE THAT WORK, AND ANY OTHER PROCEDURAL ISSUES LIKE NOTICE AND WHO CAN BE PRESENT AT INTERVIEWS. SO WE’D BE WANTING TO PAY ATTENTION TO THOSE PROCEDURAL ISSUES. IT DOES NOT IMPLICATE THE CITY CHARTER BECAUSE THE MODEL DOES NOT AFFECT DECISIONS REGARDING AN EMPLOYEE’S DISCIPLINE. IT’S MORE THOSE PROCEDURAL ISSUES.>>NEXT IS THE PHOENIX INVESTIGATIVE EXAMPLE, AND SO THE SAMPLE DUTIES ARE RECEIVE COMPLAINTS, INVESTIGATE COMPLAINTS, PERFORM PARALLEL INVESTIGATIONS ON USE OF FORCE ALLEGATIONS, UTILIZE SUBPOENAS FOR RECORDS, WITNESSES AND OFFICER INTERVIEWS, RECOMMEND DISCIPLINE TO THE CHIEF, AND ISSUE ANNUAL REPORTS. SO ONE OF THE THINGS I DIDN’T MENTION, BUT NOW THAT WE’RE AT THE THIRD AND FINAL MODEL, THE DUTIES WOULD DICTATE WHAT KIND OF STAFF YOU NEED. SO IN THIS MODEL WHERE YOU’RE HIRING INVESTIGATORS, YOU’D NEED PEOPLE WITH AN INVESTIGATIVE BACKGROUND. THE POSSIBLE STAFFING LEVEL IS 15 TO 22. BOARD SIZE, 5 TO 25 AT COUNCIL’S DISCRETION. ESTIMATED OPERATING COST, $2.3 MILLION TO 3.4 MILLION. AND SIMILAR KINDS OF STARTING POINTS. SCOPE REFINEMENT, ORDINANCE DRAFTING, AND MARY WILL NOW ADDRESS LEGAL ISSUES.>>AND THIS MODEL DOES IMPLICATE THE CHARTER. AS DESCRIBED, IT MAY REQUIRE A CHARTER AMENDMENT TO CHANGE THE AUTHORITY OF THE CITY MANAGER OR THE MANAGER’S DESIGNEE OVER PERSONNEL DECISIONS, WHICH IN THIS CASE IS THE CHIEF AND, OF COURSE, IF WE ARE GETTING INTO CHARTER AMENDMENTS THAT WOULD INVOLVE AN ELECTION. I ALSO WANTED TO NOTE THAT THE CHARTER’S PROHIBITION AGAINST CITY COUNCIL INVOLVEMENT IN PERSONNEL DECISIONS WAS SOMETHING WE LOOKED AT WHEN LOOKING AT THIS MODEL. NOW, WHY THIS COMES UP IS BECAUSE OF THE POTENTIAL THAT THE CITY COUNCIL IS ACTUALLY SELECTING THIS BOARD, THEN I THINK IT IMPLICATES THIS CHARTER PROVISION. YOU MAY NOTE LIKE THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD IS A CITIZEN BOARD APPOINTED BY COUNCIL, BUT THAT IS ESTABLISHED BY THE CHARTER. THE CHARTER ESTABLISHES THE PERSONNEL DECISIONS LIKE THESE ARE UNDER THE CITY MANAGER AND THE CITY COUNCIL IS NOT INVOLVED WITH THOSE. SO YOU WOULD BE LOOKING AT POTENTIAL CHARTER AMENDMENTS. THEY’RE ALSO POTENTIAL PROCEDURAL ISSUES UNDER ALL THE RELEVANT LAWS WE HAVE DESCRIBED PREVIOUSLY BECAUSE THIS WOULD BE INVOLVED FROM DAY ONE IN PROCEEDINGS THAT COULD LEAD TO DISCIPLINE. SO THE PEACE OFFICER’S BILL OF RIGHTS, THE LABOR AGREEMENTS AND ALL THOSE CONFIDENTIALITY REQUIREMENTS AND PROCESS REQUIREMENTS ARE IMPLICATED. I’LL GIVE IT BACK TO MILTON.>>SO NOW, MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, WE’RE READY FOR GENERAL DISCUSSION. WE CAN ANSWER QUESTIONS ON ANY OF THE SAMPLE MODELS, OR QUESTIONS ON WHATEVER YOU MAY WANT TO ASK US.>>Mayor Gallego: THANK YOU. COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA?>>Councilman Garcia: BEFORE WE GO INTO THE MODELS, I WANTED TO GO BACK TO OUR CURRENT PROCESS AND JUST CLARIFYING THAT NONE OF THE CURRENT PROCESSES GET TRIGGER UNLESS PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS BUREAU, WHO IS MADE UP OF ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT, DECIDES SO. IS THAT CORRECT? OR NOT? ‘.>>WHEN YOU SAY NONE OF THE PROCESSES GET TRIGGERED –>>SO, IN HOW THESE GO ALONG, IT SEEMS LIKE THEY ALL — AS SOON AS THE INCIDENT HAPPENS IT GO TO PSB AND PSB DETERMINES IF IT MOVES ON FROM THEM OR NOT. SO THEY FIND NOTHING WRONG, THEN THE COMPLAINT ENDS. OR IS THERE STILL AN ABILITY FOR SOME OF THE OTHER BOARDS TO SAY, HEY, WE WANT TO LOOK AT THAT?>>THERE IS AN ABILITY FOR IT TO MOVE ON BEYOND PSB. SO PSB IS GOING TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE CHIEF AND OTHER PEOPLE IN THE DEPARTMENT. SO SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU HEARD FROM MISS PEREZ EARLIER, THEY COULD BE DIRECTED TO REINVESTIGATE CERTAIN ASPECTS OF WHAT THEY JUST DID. THEY COULD BE DIRECTED TO GO AND ENGAGE OTHER PEOPLE. SO IN THE PUREST SENSE THAT I’M INTERPRETING YOUR QUESTION, THEY DO NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO JUST KILL IT, MEANING NOTHING ELSE CAN HAPPEN.>>Councilman Garcia: OKAY. AND THEN FOLLOW-UP TO THAT, WHO MAKES UP THE USE OF FORCE BOARD AND THE DISCIPLINARY REVIEW BOARD?>>SO THERE ARE SWORN MEMBERS ON BOTH BOARDS, AND THERE ARE CIVILIAN MEMBERS ON BOTH BOARDS. SO THE REASON THAT I LIKE USING THE JURY POOL ANALOGY, IT’S NOT LIKE THE SAME PEOPLE SIT FOR EVERY CASE. IT’S A DIFFERENT SET OF PEOPLE EVERY TIME A CASE COMES. SO THERE WILL BE OFFICERS ASSEMBLED, WHAT RANK THEY HOLD I WOULD DEFER TO THE CHIEF’S OFFICE TO COMMENT ON THAT, THERE WOULD BE CIVILIANS THAT COME OUT OF THAT POOL AND SIT ON USE OF FORCE OR DISCIPLINARY REVIEW. THEIR FUNCTIONALITY IS ESSENTIALLY THE SAME. THEY’RE GOING TO ADVISE THE CHIEF ON WHAT THEY SEE. DO YOU SEE AN OUT OF POLICY USE OF FORCE? DO YOU SEE A DISCIPLINARY ACT THAT WARRANTS SOME KIND OF DISCIPLINE? THEY’RE ALL THERE TO BE ADVISORY TO THE CHIEF AS THE PROCESS MOVES FORWARD. AND TO SORT OF CLOSE THAT QUESTION, THE CHIEF CAN TAKE THE RECOMMENDATION THAT THEY MAKE TO HER, SHE CAN GO WITH IT, SHE CAN GO LESS, SHE CAN GO MORE.>>Mayor Gallego: COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA, SHOULD I TURN TO — COUNCILMEMBER STARK.>>Councilwoman Stark: I WANT TO FOLLOW UP WITH THE COUNCILMAN’S QUESTIONS. SO THE USE OF FORCE, THAT IS — CIVILIANS ARE APPOINTED BY THE CHIEF AND NOT BY COUNCIL, AND THEN IF I’M CORRECT ON THAT, WOULD THAT REQUIRE — LET’S SAY THE COUNCIL DECIDED THEY NEED TO BE A PART OF THAT PROCESS, WOULD THAT REQUIRE A CITY CHARTER AMENDMENT? KIND OF A TWO-PART QUESTION.>>SO — SORRY, MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, COUNCILWOMAN STARK, I WOULDN’T NECESSARILY SAY APPOINTED BY THE CHIEF, BECAUSE THE CITIZENS COME AND GO THROUGH AN APPLICATION PROCESS IN ORDER TO GET TO BE IN THE POOL. SO A CITIZEN THAT WANTS TO BE INVOLVED WITH EITHER DRB, USE OF FORCE, WHATEVER, THEY’VE GONE THROUGH AN APP PROCESS, THEY HAVE BEEN BACKGROUND CHECKED, THERE’S SOME SCREENING THAT GOES INTO IT. I BELIEVE THE CURRENT POOL SIZE THAT WE HAVE IS 60, SOMEWHERE IN THAT RANGE. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT LIST IS GOOD FOR THREE YEARS. SO OVER THE COURSE OF THREE YEARS, THEY MIGHT BE CALLED FOR A VARIETY OF CASES, NOT JUST PEOPLE THAT ARE HAND-PICKED BY THE CHIEF.>>Mayor Gallego: AND I THINK THERE WAS A SECOND PART OF THE QUESTION, PROBABLY FOR MARY O’GRADY, COULD THE COUNCIL DIRECT — WOULD IT REQUIRE A CHARTER CHANGE FOR THE COUNCIL.>>Councilwoman Stark: IF WE DECIDED WE WANTED TO BE INVOLVED AND HELP APPOINT THOSE PEOPLE, WOULD THAT BE A CHARTER?>>I AM GOING TO SAY POTENTIALLY BECAUSE OF — AND BECAUSE THERE IS A QUESTION OF DEGREE HERE. IF COUNCIL APPOINTS, SERVES AT THE PLEASURE OF, AND THEN YOU’RE REPLACING GETTING IT OUT OF THE MANAGER’S CHAIN OF COMMAND AND UNDER THE COUNCIL, THEN I THINK YOU NEED A CHARTER AMENDMENT. AND CURRENTLY THE PROCESS IS UNDER THE MANAGER AND UNDER THE CHIEF IT DOESN’T IMPLICATE THE CHARTER.>>Mayor Gallego: COUNCILWOMAN WILLIAMS. SORRY –>>Councilwoman Williams: JUST EVEN CHANGING THE NUMBER OF CIVILIANS THAT WOULD BE SERVING ON THAT BOARD WOULD REQUIRE THAT? NOT NAMING ANY PEOPLE OR ANYTHING, JUST SAYING INSTEAD OF TWO THERE’S FOUR?>>MAYOR AND COUNCILMEMBERS, I’M THINKING OF WHO DOES THE SELECTION, WHO PICKS WHO SERVES ON THE BOARD, AND IF IT’S A BOARD THAT CONSISTS OF COUNCIL APPOINTEES THAT SERVE AT THE PLEASURE OF THE COUNCIL, AND THAT MAKES UP THE MAJORITY OF THE BOARD, YOU HAVE POTENTIAL LEGAL ISSUES BECAUSE OF THE CHARTER. AGAIN, THIS IS WHERE THERE MAY BE A SCALE IN TERMS OF HOW THE SPECIFICS OF THE PROPOSAL WORK IN TERMS OF WHEN THE CHARTER IS IMPLICATED.>>Councilwoman Williams: YOU SAID THERE’S A POOL OF 60. SO INSTEAD OF HAVING, SAY, TWO, FOUR COULD BE SELECTED BY WHOMEVER SELECTS THEM NOW THAT FROM POOL?>>MAYOR AND COUNCILMEMBERS, THAT WOULD NOT IMPLICATE THE COUNCIL — THE CHARTER BECAUSE YOU’RE NOT CHANGING WHO DOES THE SELECTION, AND, HALEY, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU WANTED TO ADD ON THAT POINT?>>YES, MEMBERS OF OF COUNCIL, THIS PARTICULAR COMMITTEE AND THE CITIZEN SELECTION PROCESS ARE ESTABLISHED IN THE POLICE OPERATION ORDERS, WHICH YOU DO HAVE A COPY OF. IT WOULD BE ORDER 3.18, WHICH IS IN YOUR MATERIALS. WOULD KIND OF LAY OUT HOW THE POOL WORKS AND HOW THEY ARE SELECTED. AS FAR AS CHANGING THE NUMBERS, THIS IS UNDER THE CITY MANAGER’S AUTHORITIES BECAUSE THE CITY MANAGER HAS DELEGATED TO THE POLICE CHIEF SORT OF OVERSIGHT OF THESE PERSONNEL RULES AND THE POLICIES THAT APPLY TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND THIS DISCIPLINE REVIEW BOARD IS ESTABLISHED IN THOSE ORDERS. SO IT WOULD BE A QUESTION OF SOMEBODY PROPOSING A RULE CHANGE FOR THE POLICE ORDERS AS IT IS CURRENTLY SET UP.>>Councilwoman Williams: THANK YOU. I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION, IF I CAN. HOW MANY COMPLAINTS DO YOU RECEIVE A YEAR? WHAT’S THE RANGE?>>COUNCILWOMAN WILLIAMS, THAT’S SOMETHING I NEED TO DO A LITTLE MORE RESEARCH ON TO MAKE SURE THAT I’M GIVING YOU ACCURATE NUMBERS, BECAUSE YOU REMEMBER THE SLIDE I SHOWED YOU WHERE COMPLAINTS ARE COMING IN A VARIETY OF PLACES. SO WHAT WE HAVE NOW IS AN INDIVIDUAL MAY SEND THEIR SAME COMPLAINT TO EIGHT OR NINE DIFFERENT PEOPLE, AND SO THAT COMPLAINT CAN BE FORWARDED TO DIFFERENT FOLKS. I WANT TO TALK TO THE POLICE A LITTLE MORE BEFORE I START GIVING NUMBERS TO MAKE SURE ONE COMPLAINT THAT GOES TO NINE PEOPLE IS STILL ONE COMPLAINT, NOT NINE COMPLAINTS. SO I WOULD ASK FOR A LITTLE MORE TIME TO GIVE YOU THAT.>>Councilwoman Williams: ALSO, THE COMPLAINT ITSELF, I THINK — I THINK WAY BACK YOU SAID A PRECINCT COMMANDER COULD SETTLE SOME OF THEM?>>MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, SOME OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT COME IN ARE OF A NATURE THAT’S MORE LOCALIZED. SO I’M UPSET WITH OFFICER JONES IN THIS PRECINCT ON WHAT THEY SAID. THAT COMPLAINT MIGHT GET RESOLVED AT THE PRECINCT LEVEL. IT’S NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO GO ALL THE WAY THROUGH A PROCESS. SO IT JUST DEPENDS ON THE NATURE OF WHAT THE COMPLAINT IS, HOW FAR IT GOES. AND BASED ON THAT, THAT’S WHY SOME CITIES DO USE MEDIATION TO TRY TO GET IT SETTLED AT A LOWER LEVEL MUCH QUICKER THAN GOING THROUGH ALL THE STEPS THAT IT COULD.>>Councilwoman Williams: THANK YOU.>>Councilman Garcia: QUICK FOLLOW-UP ON THAT. SO WE DON’T TRACK ALL COMPLAINTS THAT COME IN? NO, I’M NOT — MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, I’M NOT SAYING THAT WE DON’T TRACK THEM. I’M SAY YOUNG I NEED TO DO MORE COMMUNICATING WITH POLICE BEFORE I — I DON’T WANT TO SAY A NUMBER OUT LOUD AND HAVE IT BE WRONG. SO I NEED TO GET A DEEPER UNDERSTANDING OF JUST HOW WE DO CALCULATE THEM AND THEN I’LL BE GLAD TO SHARE WHAT WE HAVE.>>Mayor Gallego: COUNCILWOMAN PASTOR.>>Councilwoman Pastor: I JUST NEED SOME CLARITY ABOUT OPERATION ORDERS. MY QUESTION IS WHO CRAFTS THE OPERATION ORDERS? WHO BLESSES THE OPERATION ORDERS? AND THEN HOW DO THEY — I’M ASSUMING THEN THEY GET IMPLEMENTED.>>GENERICALLY SPEAKING, SINCE WE’RE GOING TO DO A DEEPER DIVE, I WILL INVITE CHIEF WILLIAMS TO COME JOIN ME. BUT TO GET AT YOUR QUESTION, AN OPS ORDER IS ESSENTIALLY CONSTRUCTED WITHIN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT ITSELF. SO THERE IS THAT INTERNAL PROCESS OF DRAFTING WHAT THE ORDER IS. THERE IS A PROCESS FOR COMMUNICATING IT OUT TO THE MEMBERS BEFORE IT ACTUALLY IS EXECUTED. IT THEN IS ADDED TO THE BODY OF OTHER OPS ORDERS. IT’S LIKE THEIR DAY-TO-DAY BIBLE THAT DIRECTS WHAT THEY DO, AND SO IF I BUTCHERED THAT, CHIEF, I APOLOGIZE.>>MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, MR. DOHONEY, YOU DID NOT BUTCHER IT, SIR. YOU DID A GREAT JOB. OPERATIONS ORDERS COME ABOUT IN A NUMBER OF WAYS. THAT IF THERE IS A CHANGE IN STATE LAW. IF THERE’S A CHANGE IN METHODOLOGY OF POLICING. THERE’S COMMUNITY INPUT, PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THAT IS OPERATIONS ORDERS 4.8 THAT WE MADE ADJUSTMENTS TO BASED ON LEARNING A LOT MORE ABOUT WHAT WE’RE DOING AND HOW WE’RE POLICING. SOME OF THEM ARE JUST HISTORICAL. SOME OF THEM WE ADD IN. SOME IS LAW. SOME OF IT IS COMMUNITY. IT’S AN EVER-CHANGING, EVER-BREATHING DOCUMENT THAT WHEN WE STAFF IT, WE STAFF IT TO EMPLOYEES, WE STAFF IT TO THE LABOR ORGANIZATIONS, AND WE’VE ACTUALLY RECENTLY — I WANT TO SAY IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS OR SO ADDED IN A COMMUNITY PIECE WHERE WE’RE VETTING SOME OF THOSE POLICIES THROUGH THE COMMUNITY.>>Councilwoman Pastor: OKAY. SO THE REASON WHY I’M ASKING, BECAUSE YOU TALKED ABOUT 3.18. WHAT I RECALL ON OPERATION ORDERS, AND IT WAS 4.48 THAT I WAS HEAVILY INVOLVED IN, I REMEMBER COMING OVER VACATION TO REVIEW SOME LANGUAGE IN 4.48 BECAUSE IT WAS GOING TO GET IMPLEMENTED, AND WE NEEDED TO TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT IT, AT SOME OF THE LANGUAGE. 4.48 ALSO WENT THROUGH, I WANT TO CALL, PUBLIC SAFETY COMMIT COMMITTEE AND WE DID SOME GREAT WORK ALONG WITH THE COMMUNITY AND POLICE DEPARTMENT IN REALLY LOOKING AT 4.48 AND THE LANGUAGE AND WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE. SO THE WAY I’M LOOKING AT, AND MARY, YOU CAN TELL ME IF I’M WRONG OR NOT, IS THAT THE COUNCIL DOES HAVE THE ABILITY, ALONG WITH THE POLICE CHIEF AND THE COMMUNITY, TO LOOK AT DIFFERENT OPERATION ORDERS AND LOOK AT IF SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE ADDED OR SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE CHANGED, AS LONG AS WE STAY WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF THE STATE LAW. I DON’T KNOW — I NEED AN ANSWER TO THAT.>>MAYOR, COUNCIL, IF THERE’S NO CHANGE IN THE DECISION-MAKING AUTHORITY, AND THESE ARE PROCEDURES APPROVED WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT, INPUT INTO — INTO THAT IS NOT A CONCERN. MY CONCERN WAS WHEN WE’RE TALKING ABOUT NEW BOARDS THAT MAY BE COUNCIL APPOINTED INDEPENDENT OF THE CITY MANAGER CHAIN OF COMMAND, THAT RAISES DIFFERENT LEGAL ISSUES UNDER THE CHARTER THAN WHAT YOU’RE DESCRIBING.>>Councilwoman Pastor: OKAY. MY NEXT QUESTION IS, IN THE CHARTER, WHICH I THINK I HAVE RIGHT HERE, IF YOU COULD SHOW ME THAT LANGUAGE IN THE CHARTER, THE PAGE NUMBER — WHAT I’M CURIOUS ABOUT OR WHAT I WANT TO KNOW IS WHAT DOES THE LANGUAGE SAY IN THE CHARTER? BECAUSE IT’S CITY MANAGER’S AUTHORITY, THAT’S WHAT I KEEP HEARING.>>MAYOR AND COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT A COUPLE OF THINGS, AND I MAY ASK HAYLEIGH TO SUPPLEMENT AS WELL. LOOKING AT CHAPTER 3, WHICH IS GOVERNMENT, AND SECTION 2, THE FIRST SECTION JUST TALKS ABOUT THE — GENERALLY ESTABLISHING THE CITY MANAGER AS THE CHIEF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER. SO THAT WAS SOME LANGUAGE WE LOOKED AT. WHEN YOU LOOK AT SUBSECTION B OF THAT, IT GETS INTO MORE DETAIL ON THE CITY MANAGER’S POWERS, AND THERE IT SAYS HE SHALL APPOINT, AND WHEN HE DEEMS NECESSARY FOR THE GOOD OF SERVICE, SUSPEND OR REMOVE CITY EMPLOYEES, ET CETERA. SO THAT GIVES HIM THE AUTHORITY OVER CITY EMPLOYEES. THE NEXT LINE, ME MAY AUTHORIZE AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER WHO IS SUBJECT TO HIS DIRECTION AND SUPERVISION TO EXERCISE THOSE POWERS WITH RESPECT TO SUBORDINATES IN THAT OFFICER’S DEPARTMENT, AGENCY OR OFFICE. SO THAT REFLECTS CITY MANAGER’S IN CHARGE AND THERE IS A DELEGATION PERMITTED IN THIS CONTEXT. THE DELEGATION IS TO THE CHIEF, WHO IS THE DEPARTMENT HEAD. AND THEN SUBSECTION 2 THERE, PARAGRAPH 2, IS, AGAIN, THAT GENERAL AUTHORITY OVER ALL DEPARTMENTS. SO THAT’S THE MANAGER’S POWER THAT — OVER EMPLOYEES, WHICH IS IN THE CHARTER. THE OTHER THING THAT WE LOOKED AT, AND THERE’S OTHER LANGUAGE REGARDING THE — AGAIN COUNCIL’S POWER, AND THERE, SAME CHAPTER, PARAGRAPH 4, NEITHER THE COUNCIL NOR ANY OF ITS MEMBERS SHALL DIRECT OR REQUEST THE APPOINTMENT OF ANY PERSON OR REMOVAL FROM OFFICE BY THE CITY MANAGER, ANY SUBORDINARY NUTS OR TAKE PART IN THE REMOVAL OF OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES IN THE ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICE OF THE CITY. SO THERE THAT LANGUAGE, IF YOU GET INTO A SITUATION WHERE YOU’RE NOT MAKING THE DECISIONS BUT YOU’RE APPOINTING PEOPLE WHO SERVE AT THE PLEASURE OF COUNCIL MEMBERS, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS STRUCTURE, IT SEEMS YOU’RE GETTING — YOU’RE INTERFERING WITH THE — YOU HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO INTERFERE WITH THE MANAGER’S AUTHORITY OVER SUPERVISION, WHICH IS CLEARLY ESTABLISHED IN THE — IN THE — IN THE CHARTER. BECAUSE THE COUNCIL IS NOT SUPPOSED TO PARTICIPATE IN ANY MANNER IN THE APPOINTMENT OR REMOVAL. NOW, THAT DOES NOT MEAN — SO, REALLY, THIS IS ONLY RELEVANT TO THAT — THE THIRD INVESTIGATIVE MODEL THAT HAS BEEN DESCRIBED RATHER THAN THE — WHERE THE YOU ARE — YOU’RE GETTING INVOLVED WITH SPECIFIC DISCIPLINE DECISIONS. THE OTHER MODELS THAT HAVE BEEN DESCRIBED, THE AUDITOR/MONITOR AND THE REVIEW THAT OCCUR AFTER THOSE DECISIONS HAVE BEEN MADE DON’T RAISE THESE SAME ISSUES, LEGAL ISSUES.>>Councilwoman Pastor: OKAY. BECAUSE I, AND I’M NOT A LAWYER, SO THIS IS WHERE I NEED YOU, I INTERPRET IT AS THE CITY MANAGER REALLY HAS THE AUTHORITY, AND I INTERPRET IT AS IF WE WANTED TO GO TO AN INVESTIGATIVE MODEL, THE AUTHORITY IS REALLY UNDER THE CITY MANAGER, AND HE SHIFTS THE AUTHORITY TO HIS DESIGNEE. SO THERE COULD BE A POSSIBILITY IN THE INVESTIGATIVE MODEL THAT THERE IS A — I DON’T KNOW WHAT I WANT TO CALL IT — THERE IS A LEVEL WHERE THE CHIEF HAS MADE A DECISION, AND THERE IS ANOTHER DUE PROCESS OF WHERE IT COMES TO THE CITY MANAGER, AND THE CITY MANAGER THEN CAN MAKE THE FINAL DECISION.>>MAYOR, COUNCIL, THE CITY MANAGER IS STILL –>>Councilwoman Pastor: IN CHARGE.>>THE OTHER THING IN TERMS OF HOW THINGS ARE STRUCTURED IN TERMS OF EMPLOYMENT DECISIONS UNDER CHAINS OF COMMAND, IT DOES SAY ON THESE EMPLOYMENT DECISIONS THEY ARE — THEY CAN BE DELEGATED BY HIM TO BASICALLY THE DEPARTMENT HEAD, IS WHAT THAT CONTEMPLATES. THE OTHER THING JUST STRUCTURALLY IN THE CHARTER, IT GOES BACK TO THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD, BECAUSE EVEN WHEN THE CITY MANAGER AND HIS — THE PEOPLE UNDER HIS JURISDICTION HAVE MADE THE DECISIONS, THEN THERE’S THE POSSIBILITY OF APPEALS IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES TO THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD, WHICH IS COUNCIL-APPOINTED, AND IT’S THAT CIVIL SERVICE BOARD, AND THEY HAVE HEARINGS AND MAKE DECISIONS, AND THOSE DECISIONS ARE THE FINAL DECISIONS IN THESE DISCIPLINARY MATTER. SO THAT’S — THAT EXTRA LEVEL OF REVIEW THAT THE CHARTER PROVIDES.>>Councilwoman Pastor: SO YOU’RE SAYING THAT THE CHIEF — THE CHIEF CAN MAKE A DECISION, GOES TO THE CIVIL REVIEW, THEY DON’T AGREE, THEY GO TO THE CIVIL REVIEW, YOU’RE SAYING THAT THAT’S THE LAST DUE PROCESS?>>AND IT GOES TO THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD IF AN EMPLOYEE FILES AN APPEAL FROM THE CHIEF’S DECISION, FROM THE DISCIPLINARY DECISION, AND THEN THAT’S THE FINAL LEVEL OF REVIEW AT THAT POINT AFTER HEARING — IN DISCIPLINARY MATTERS. NOW, AGAIN, SOME OF THIS REVIEW WOULDN’T AFFECT INDIVIDUAL DISCIPLINE UNDER SOME OF THESE MODELS, BUT THAT’S HOW THE DISCIPLINARY PROCESS WORKS.>>Councilwoman Pastor: YOU’RE SAYING THE INVESTIGATIVE MODEL — UNDER THE INVESTIGATIVE MODEL, WE COULD NOT CREATE A HYBRID OF AN INVESTIGATIVE MODEL THAT WOULD STAY WITHIN STATE LAW AND STAY WITHIN THE CHARTER? THAT’S WHAT I’M HEARING.>>WELL, I’D WANT TO KNOW, AGAIN, WHAT — WHAT ADDITIONAL DETAILS THERE ARE. BECAUSE WE DO HAVE INVESTIGATIONS HERE CONDUCTED BY PSB. IF YOU WANT TO HAVE A DIFFERENT ENTITY DO THOSE INVESTIGATIONS, YOU NEED TO RESPECT THE CHARTER STRUCTURE UNDER THE CITY MANAGER.>>Councilwoman Pastor: YEAH, WE ARE — I GUESS WHERE I’M TRYING TO GET AT IS, IS THERE A POSSIBILITY TO DO A HYBRID OF AN INVESTIGATIVE MODEL, OR HAVE A HYBRID OF AN INVESTIGATIVE MODEL THAT STAYS WITHIN THE STATE LAW AND STAYS WITHIN THE CHARTER AND I DON’T KNOW — YOU DON’T HAVE TO ANSWER, BECAUSE I KNOW WE DON’T HAVE THE ANSWER, BUT I’M JUST SAYING THESE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT I WOULD LIKE TO LOOK AT AS WE MOVE FORWARD IN THIS AREA.>>MAYOR AND COUNCIL, SO, TWO COMMENTS. ONE, THE LABELS ARE HELPFUL ONLY TO A — TO A LIMITED WAY. SO WE’D NEED TO KNOW SPECIFICALLY WHAT’S YOUR VISION OF A HYBRID MODEL? WHAT ARE ITS COMPONENTS? THEN WE CAN DO A BETTER, MORE CONCRETE LEGAL ANALYSIS WHEN WE KNOW KIND OF WHAT THE SPECIFICS ARE OF THAT CONCEPT. AND — SO, THAT –>>City Mgr. Zuercher: I THINK WHAT YOU’RE ASKING IS, IS IT POSSIBLE TO CREATE A HYBRID THAT HAS ELEMENTS OF INVESTIGATIVE THAT STAY WITHIN THE EXISTING CHARTER AND STATE LAW. WHAT I’M HEARING IS YOU TURNING IT BACK TO US IS IT POSSIBLE TO CREATE ONE –>>Councilwoman Pastor: RIGHT, I WANT TO KNOW THE LEGAL.>>City Mgr. Zuercher: I THINK I UNDERSTAND.>>Councilman Garcia: ONE QUESTION AND THEN A COMMENT ON THAT. THE CSB — IT DOESN’T ONLY LOOK AT POLICE OFFICERS, RIGHT?>>THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD? MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, THAT IS CORRECT. THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD IS THERE FOR ANY EMPLOYEE OF THE GOVERNMENT WHO WANTS TO APPEAL DISCIPLINARY ACTION THAT RELATES TO DEMOTION, SUSPENSIONS AND TERMINATION.>>City Mgr. Zuercher: ANY EMPLOYEE WHO IS COVERED BY THE CIVIL SERVICE SYSTEM. THERE ARE EMPLOYEES AT A CERTAIN LEVEL AND ABOVE THAT ARE NOT COVERED BY THE CIVIL SERVICE SYSTEM THAT DO NOT HAVE RIGHTS TO THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD. BUT THE VAST MAJORITY OF CITY EMPLOYEES, CIVIL AND SWORN IN, HAVE RIGHTS TO THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD.>>Councilman Garcia: AND THEN THE SECOND, WHAT WOULD KEEP US — WHAT WOULD MAKE US HAVE TO CHANGE THE CHARTER WOULD BE THE SELECTION PROCESS OF THE — OF WHO WE WANTED ON A BOARD?>>MAYOR, COUNCIL, THERE’S MORE THAN THAT. IT’S THE DECISION-MAKING INVOLVED WITH THE DISCIPLINE AND HOW THE SYSTEM IS STRUCTURED. ANYTHING MORE ON THAT ONE?>>NOTHING THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.>>Mayor Gallego: TO DRAMATICALLY CHANGE WHO HIRES AND FIRES AT THE CITY WOULD REQUIRE A CHARTER AMENDMENT?>>THAT’S RIGHT, MAYOR.>>Mayor Gallego: VICE MAYOR WARING.>>Councilman Waring: QUESTIONS FOR THE CHIEF AND MAYBE FOLLOW-UP FOR ED FOR THE NEXT MEETING. CHIEF, YOU AND I JUST TALKED, AND I THINK I UNDERSTAND IT, BUT OF THE — SO WE HAVE ROUGHLY 3,000 OFFICERS, AND SO THEY — JUST FOR PUBLIC WATCHING AT HOME, ROUGHLY 3,000 OFFICERS, YOU CAN DO THE MATH, ABOUT 2.5 MILLION INTERACTIONS WITH THE PUBLIC, IF I HAVE THAT RIGHT, SO 2.5 MILLION WITH THE 3,000 OFFICERS, THAT’S A LOT FOR EACH OFFICER. ON PAGE 31 OF THE PRESENTATION IT TALKED ABOUT THE ADMINISTRATIVE ACTIONS. AM I RIGHT THAT THAT IS ALL THE ACTIONS, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WAY OF SAYING IT, AGAINST OFFICERS OR — THIS IS IT? THIS LIST OF, LIKE, 600 AND SOMETHING IS THE LIST OF THOSE 2.5 MILLION INTERACTIONS? WE WOUND UP WITH ABOUT 600, ROUGHLY, COMPLAINTS IN 2018, EITHER FROM SUPERVISORS OR OTHER METHODS, AND THE DISCIPLINE WOUND UP BEING ENCAPSULATED ON THIS ONE PAGE, PAGE 31? IS THAT ACCURATE?>>YES, MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, THE NUMBERS THAT I GAVE YOU REPRESENT THE ADMINISTRATIVE ACTION, INCLUDING DISCIPLINE –>>Councilman Waring: THE TOTALITY OF IT. THERE IS NO OTHER LIST OF SOME OTHER SANCTION? THIS IS IT, FROM THE LEAST, COACHING AN TRAININGING, TO THE WORST, DISMISSAL, AND SOME MAY HAVE BEEN PROSECUTED BUT THAT’S NOT NECESSARILY LISTED HERE? I MEAN, SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE DISMISSED — WE HAVE ONE OFFICER WHO WENT TO PRISON FOR SHOOTING SOMEBODY RECENTLY.>>MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, THE LIST DOES NOT CAPTURE ANYTHING COMING OUT OF THE COUNTY ATTORNEY’S OFFICE.>>Councilman Waring: THIS IS IT. BUT THERE’S PROBABLY NOTHING WHERE NOBODY GOT SANCTIONED BUT GOT PROSECUTED — I’M TRYING TO MAKE SURE THERE IS NO OTHER — I’M NOT SURE WHAT CIRCUMSTANCE THAT WOULD BE, WHERE WE DIDN’T MAKE THE PERSON RESIGN BUT THEY GOT PROSECUTED BY THE COUNTY. I THINK THAT’S UNLIKELY.>>MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, SO ONE COULD PRESUME THAT SOME OF THAT IS IN HERE, BUT THERE MAY BE SOME TIME FRAME BETWEEN DECISION TO PROSECUTE, ACTUALLY PROSECUTING AND COMING BACK THROUGH THE EMPLOYMENT DECISION THAT I MAKE TO TERMINATE AN EMPLOYEE.>>Councilman Waring: ROUGHLY 600 FOR 2018, THERE MIGHT BE A FEW OUT LIERS, STRAGGLERS, THAT GET PROSECUTED IN 2019 THAT AREN’T ON THIS LIST, BUT BOTTOM LINE, THERE PROBABLY AREN’T DOZENS OF THOSE. 600 ROUGHLY ON THIS LIST. THAT’S OUT OF 2.5 MILLION INTERACTIONS. FIRST, I WANT TO COMPLIMENT THE OFFICERS ON — THAT’S A PRETTY HIGH BATTING AVERAGE GIVENNOLOGY THE INTERACTIONS, ALL THE HUMAN VARIABLES AT PLAY, ALL THE FIREARMS, ALL THE EVERYTHING THAT GOES INTO THIS. SO, OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE ACTIONS, TWO-THIRDS ARE TRAINING AND COACHING AND SUPERVISORY COUNSELING. WHICH NOBODY LIKES TO GET WRITTEN UP BY THEIR SUPERVISOR, BUT THAT SHOULDN’T BE A CAREER-ENDER, I WOULDN’T THINK. I’M SURE YOU CAN GIVE ME EXAMPLES WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE, WHAT IT TAKES TO GET THAT, BUT COACHING AND TRAINING SOUNDS BENIGN. WRITTEN REPRIMAND CERTAINLY MORE SERIOUS, WORKS IT WAY UP. THEN SUSPENSIONS. OF THE 600 ROUGHLY, YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT 36 — YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT LESS THAN 50 RESULTED IN A RESIGNED OR RETIRED, WHICH I’M GUESSING, MAYBE IN SOME CASES, THEY WERE JUST READY TO RESIGN OR RETIRE BUT THEY PROBABLY SAW THE HANDWRITING ON THE WALL AND RESIGNED OR RETIRED. NINE RETIRED IN LIEU OF BEING FIRED AND 3 WERE OUTRIGHT FIRED. THAT’S NOT GOOD. IT — MAKING THEM BE GONE RATHER THAN STICK AROUND AND FACE THE MUSIC. THAT’S NOT A LOT OUT OF THE 2.5 MILLION. I RECOGNIZE THESE ARE PROBABLY ALL SERIOUS CASES. MY QUESTION GETS BACK TO WHAT WAS KIND OF ASKED EARLIER, AND I’LL ASK IT IN A DIFFERENT WAY, I GUESS THE POINT OF THIS EXERCISE WOULD BE TO RELOOK AT ROUGHLY THESE 600. THERE MIGHT BE SOME LESSER OFFENSES, I’M GUESSING, THAT NEVER WENT THROUGH THE PROCESS. BUT I DON’T KNOW HOW MANY OF THOSE THERE WOULD BE, AND HOW SERIOUS COULD SOMETHING BE IF IT NEVER EVEN RESULTED IN TRAINING OR COACHING WITH THE PROCESSES WE HAVE RIGHT NOW? SO TO MY MIND WHAT WE’RE LOOKING FOR, I GUESS, IS CASES LIKE THAT, AND THEN ALSO CASES WHERE THE PERSON GOT A WRITTEN REPRIMAND, BUT IN RETROSPECT WE THINK MAYBE THEY SHOULDN’T BE AN OFFICER AT ALL, OR THE PUBLIC DOES. SO YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO DO IT FOR 2018. I RECOGNIZE SOME OF THESE ARE GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS. BUT TO THE QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED BY SAL EARLIER, I THINK, AT LEAST, MY IMPRESS OF IT, YOU DON’T HAVE TO DO 2018. GO BACK TO WHERE THE CASES HAVE ALREADY BEEN THROUGH THE PROCESS. SO 2015. OR WHENEVER THEY’RE DONE. AND I WOULD LIKE EXAMPLES, YOU DON’T HAVE TO USE NAMES OF OFFICERS OR CITIZENS, BUT OFFICER X DID THIS AND ONLY GOT SUPERVISORY COUNSELING, BUT WE KIND OF THINK, YOU KNOW, IF WE’D HAD THIS PROCESS FOR WHICH WE’RE GOING TO SPEND, IT SOUNDS LIKE MILLIONS, IF WE HAVE TO DO A SPECIAL ELECTION, THAT’S A MILLION BUCKS RIGHT THERE, WE WOULD HAVE GOTTEN A MUCH DIFFERENT RESULT. THEY WOULDN’T HAVE GOTTEN A WRITTEN REPRIMAND OR SUPERVISORY COUNSELING, THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO RETIRE. I’M CURIOUS, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE, TO GET THAT DIFFERENT OF A RESULT? BECAUSE THERE IS DEFINITELY A PRETTY CLEAR DELINEATION BETWEEN THE TOP THREE, TRAINING AND COACHING, SUPERVISORY COUNSELING AND WRITTEN REPRIMAND, AND SUSPENSIONS. THAT’S GOING TO AFFECT THE CAREER AT SOME POINT. AND THE REST JUST AREN’T OFFICERS ANYMORE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I’M SAYING, ED?>>City Mgr. Zuercher: I DO. I’M TRYING TO SORT THROUGH IT. BECAUSE BY NATURE OF THIS, ALL OF THESE WOULD HAVE BEEN WHAT CHIEF WILLIAMS OR HER EXECUTIVE STAFF, IN SOME CASES, TRAINING AND COACHING PROBABLY DOESN’T COME TO CHIEF WILLIAMS, BUT ULTIMATELY CHIEF WILLIAMS BELIEVED THIS SHOULD HAPPEN. SO IT WOULD ONLY BE IN THE CASE WHERE THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD CORRECT — CHANGED THAT WHERE IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT FROM WHAT THE CHIEF OR THE POLICE LEADERSHIP THOUGHT SHOULD HAPPEN. RIGHT? SO WE ARE –>>Councilman Waring: WE’RE REALLY TAKING THE 600 AND BOILING IT DOWN TO HOW MANY CASES IS WHAT WE’RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY REALLY GOING TO IMPACT. THAT’S KIND OF WHAT I’M TRYING TO GET AT. AND WHERE ARE WE GOING TO HAVE THIS WILD DIVERSITY IN OUR EXPECTATION VERSUS WHAT THE RESULT ACTUALLY WAS.>>City Mgr. Zuercher: I THINK THERE’S TWO PARTS AND THIS GOES BACK TO THE PREVIOUS QUESTION FROM COUNCILMAN DICICCIO, SO DISCIPLINE IS ONE BIG IMPORTANT THING, THAT THIS ADDRESSES, AND THIS IS THE UNIVERSE OF DISCIPLINE IN 2018. THERE’S ANOTHER ASPECT OF IT WHICH IS ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP TO THE COMMUNITY THAT I DON’T KNOW THAT IT GETS CAPTURED IN THESE STATISTICS, BUT AS RELATES TO THE STATISTICAL QUESTION, I THINK IT IS A VERY SMALL NUMBER HERE WHERE — AND YOU WOULD PROBABLY FIND IT IN THE DISMISSAL AND SUSPENSION NUMBERS, MAYBE THE WRITTEN REPRIMAND, WHERE THEY WOULD HAVE GONE TO THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD AND THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD WOULD HAVE DIMINISHED WHAT THE CHIEF RECOMMENDED. SO IN THAT CASE, IN THAT PART WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THAT’S ON DISCIPLINE, THAT UNIVERSE LOOKS TO BE ABOUT 50 WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO LOOK TO SEE DID THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD DECREASE WHAT THE CHIEF HAD RECOMMENDED.>>Councilman Waring: OUT OF 2.5 MILLION POSSIBLES. RIGHT?>>City Mgr. Zuercher: INTERACTIONS VERSUS END RESULTS OF DISCIPLINE, WE’RE TALKING ABOUT 50 IN THAT YEAR, I WOULD GUESS.>>Councilman Waring: BUT DO YOU SEE WHAT I’M GETTING AT?>>City Mgr. Zuercher: I DO.>>Councilman Waring: IT’S A LOT OF TIME, EFFORT AND MONEY AND SO FORTH FOR — I’M JUST TRYING TO ESTABLISH — I WAS LOOKING AT THIS LIST, AND I WAS, LIKE, WHERE IS THE BIGGER BROADER LIST. SOUNDS LIKE THERE ISN’T ONE. AND THERE MAY BE CASES OUT THERE THAT SHOULD HAVE RESULTED IN SOME TRAINING AND COACHING AND SO FORTH BUT AGAIN TRAINING AND COACHING DOESN’T SOUND LIKE — THAT DOESN’T EVEN NECESSARILY SEEM LIKE A PUNISHMENT. IT’S LIKE YOU ARE TRYING TO GET THE PERSON TO BE BETTER. MAYBE THEY’RE YOUNG, WHATEVER. BUT I WOULD LIKE — I MEAN, IT SHOULD BE POSSIBLE TO COME UP WITH SOME EXAMPLES OF WHERE THE SYSTEM FAILED, AND WHAT ARE THOSE EXAMPLES? IF WE CAN’T THINK OF ONE, THEN I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO SAY ABOUT THAT.>>City Mgr. Zuercher: IF YOU’RE ADDRESSING STRICTLY THE DISCIPLINE PART, IT’S GOING TO BE A VERY LIMITED NUMBER.>>Councilman Waring: CAN I ASK WHAT OTHER PART THERE IS?>>COUNCILMEMBER –>>MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, VICE MAYOR, TO THE LATTER PART OF THE QUESTION THAT I THINK YOU’RE RAISING, THE OTHER PART THAT THERE IS — SO THIS IS WHERE THERE’S SOME UNCERTAINTY, BUT THERE IS A SENSE THAT WITHIN THE COMMUNITY THAT HAS TRUST ISSUES WITH THE POLICE, AM I GOING TO COME FORWARD ANYWAY AND FILE IT, BECAUSE I’M NOT COMFORTABLE THAT I’M GOING TO GET A FAIR SHAKE. SO WHAT WE’RE HEARING FROM SOME SEGMENTS OF THE COMMUNITY IS, I DON’T TRUST THE PROCESS, I DON’T USE IT. IF YOU HAD AN ALTERNATIVE, WOULD THEY USE IT? SO HOW MANY PEOPLE IS THAT? WE DON’T KNOW. HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD USE AN ALTERNATIVE PROCESS WE DON’T KNOW. BUT THAT’S THE OTHER PART THAT’S SORT OF MISSING FROM THE CONVERSATION, BECAUSE WE HAVE NO WAY OF QUANTIFYING THAT. IT’S JUST WHAT WE’RE HEARING FROM COMMUNITY INTERACTIONS. WE CAN’T PUT A NUMBER ON IT.>>Mayor Gallego: I’LL TURN TO COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA AND THEN WE MIGHT GO TO OUR NACOL EXPERT WITH THAT QUESTION ABOUT DO WE SEE A DIFFERENT RESPONSE WHEN WE HAVE CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT, BUT FIRST WE’LL TURN TO COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA.>>Councilman Garcia: IT’S HARD — I WAS ABLE TO STOP MYSELF EARLIER WITH SAL. I THINK THE INCENSETIVITY AND LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF THE SITUATION WE’RE IN WITH THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT WERE SHOT AND INCIDENTS WE HAD LAST YEAR IS JUST GLARING AND I REALLY HOPE YOU WOULD JOIN US AT THE CHURCH A COUPLE MONTHS AGO SO YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN THE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WHO WERE IN LINE TO SHARE THEIR STORIES AND SEEN THE PAIN. I THINK WE HAVE PACO, MICHELLE COUP SO, ROMAIN, ERICA, THE AIMS FAMILY. WE’VE HAD SITUATIONS HAPPEN IN THIS CITY THAT HAVE SHAMED US IN THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY AND HAD COMMUNITY MEMBERS SUFFER AND WHAT WAS MENTIONED EARLIER IS THAT THE TRUST IS COMPLETELY BROKEN BETWEEN COMMUNITY AND POLICE. THAT MIGHT NOT BE AS GLARING IN YOUR DISTRICT, BUT — THAT’S WHERE IN MY DISTRICT, DISTRICT 8, WHERE I THINK HALF OF THE OFFICER INVOLVED SHOOTINGS HAVE HAPPENED THIS YEAR. I HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT. I HAVE TO DEAL WITH OUR COMMUNITY NOT ONLY TRUSTING BUT BEING AFRAID OF THE POLICE. AND SO I THINK THIS IS NOT GOING TO SOLVE ALL THAT. I THINK THIS IS A PROCESS IN WHICH WHERE WE CAN RESTORE CONFIDENCE IN THE COMMUNITY THAT WE ARE ACTUALLY DOING OUR JOB TO TRACK INCIDENTS, TO MAKE SURE FOLKS ARE RESPONSIBLY BEING REPRIMANDED, AND THAT WE’RE LOOKING TO CHANGE POLICIES WHEN NEEDED. EVERY TIME THESE INCIDENTS HAVE HAPPENED, WHAT WE’VE GONE TO IS AN AD HOC ADVISORY BOARD, ALL THESE DIFFERENT FORMATIONS, AND EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM HAVE RECOMMENDED FOR US TO DO A CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE. AND SO I THINK THE FACT THAT AT THIS TO DAY AND AGE WE HAVEN’T EVEN STARTED A PROCESS TO DO THAT, AND I JUST WANT TO REAFFIRM THAT THE — WHAT WE HAVE NOW IS NOT A CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARD. THE BOARDS WE HAVE ARE ACTUALLY MAJORITY POLICE OFFICERS WITH AN ADDITION OF A COUPLE OF CIVILIANS. I JUST THINK — YOU KNOW, I JUST WANTED TO RESPOND TO THAT AND SAY THAT I THINK THIS IS GOOD TIMING. I THINK WE SHOULD LOOK — I APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT YOU’RE VISITING OTHER CITIES. I THINK THE HYBRID MODEL AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOPEFULLY AT OUR NEXT MEETING WHAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE FOR PHOENIX, BOTH — YOU KNOW, IF WE CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN WHERE WE’RE ALL SATISFIED AND IT STAYS WITHIN CHARTER AND STATE LAW, THAT’S ANOTHER THING, IF WE HAVE TO MOVE ON TO CHARTER, THAT’S ANOTHER, BUT I DON’T WANT TO MINIMIZE THE LIVES OF THE PEOPLE THAT WERE LOST AND IMPACTED BY THE INCIDENTS WE’VE HAD, AND EVEN AT THE MOST, WHICH IS $3 MILLION, THAT ANY ONE OF THOSE LIVES AND THE LAWSUITS WE’VE PAID OUT ARE WORTH FIT WE CAN FIX THE SITUATION AND THE CONDITIONS WITHIN OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT.>>Councilman Waring: SO MY RESPONSE TO THAT IS THIS. WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE COMMUNITY LIKE IT’S ONE BIG MONOLITHIC BLOCK AND IT’S ALL UNHAPPY WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. I HAVE BEEN A LITTLE SURPRISE TO DO HEAR STAFFERS SORT OF PHRASE IT THAT WAY. THAT, TO ME, IS WRONG. YOU GOT A DEPARTMENT THAT’S GOT 2.5 MILLION INTERACTIONS WITH PEOPLE, AND WE’RE GOING TO TRY TO GO BACK AND REALLY LOOK AT MAYBE 40, 50 INTERACTIONS. I GET — I DON’T THINK I’M QUITE AS INSENSITIVE AS I’M BEING PORTRAYED, I GUESS, BUT I GUESS I’LL SAY THIS, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT’S A LITTLE SURPRISE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE POLICE SHOOTINGS WE’VE HAD. CHIEF, I’LL ASK YOU, YOU MIGHT KNOW OFF THAT TAKEOFF YOUR HEAD, HOW MANY WERE SIT WERE BECAUSE SOMEBODY CALLED AND SAID SOMEBODY WAS SHOOTING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AT SOME POINT THE CITIZEN HAS TO BEAR SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THAT. THAT IS NOT ALL ON THE CHIEF OR THE POLICE. THE CHIEF HAS TAKEN SOME HEAT FOR SUGGESTING A COMMUNITY MEETING THAT WE ALL BEAR RESPONSIBLY FOR THAT. I THINK THAT WAS ABSOLUTELY ABSURD. GIVEN, IF YOU READ ABOUT THESE CASES, WHAT TRANSPIRED. AND, AGAIN, I THINK IF YOU LOOK — I COULD BE WRONG, CHIEF. YOU WOULD PROBABLY KNOW. MOST OF THEM WERE CITIZEN INITIATED. SOMEBODY CALLED AND SAID, HEY, I NEED HELP. WHAT ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO DO, NOT HELP? I DON’T THINK THAT’S ME BEING INSENSITIVE AT ALL. I THINK IT’S OVERLY BROADLY STATED TO SAY THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY OR WHATEVER IS SCARED OF THE PHOENIX POLICE. THAT’S ABSURD. I HAVE AS MUCH VOTER CONTACT UP HERE AS ANYBODY UP HERE, I GUARANTEE YOU, AND THAT’S NOT WHAT I’M HEARING WHEN I KNOCK ON THOSE DOORS. NOW, IT MAY BE DIFFERENT IN EVERY DISTRICT. I’VE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT IN THE PAST. I’M NOT SAYING IT’S NOT DIFFERENT IN DIFFERENT PLACES. BUT WE HAVE 200,000 PEOPLE LIVING IN THE DISTRICT I REPRESENT AS WELL. I WOULD BE SURPRISED IF THAT’S THE FEEDBACK I GOT. THEY SEEM VERY SUPPORTIVE OF OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT, AS AM I. WHEN YOU HAVE 2.5 MILLION INTERACTIONS WITH PEOPLE, A LOT UNDER REALLY ADVERSE SITUATIONS, LIKE A CITIZEN CALLED, I HEARD SHOTS, I THINK SOMEBODY JUST KILLED THEIR WHOLE FAMILY, I DON’T KNOW, WHAT KIND OF RESPONSE ARE WE EXPECTING HERE? IT’S NOT — IT’S NOT GOING TO BE PERFECT EVERY SINGLE TIME, BUT THEY’RE UNDER A LOT OF DURESS. OFFICERS HAVE LOST THEIR JOBS. I DON’T KNOW EVERY SINGLE CASE IN HERE, SO OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING WAS DEEMED INAPPROPRIATE AT SOME LEVEL MOST LIKELY IN EVERY ONE OF THOSE, AND PEOPLE DID GET SUSPENDED. I’M JUST TRYING TO GET AT WITH MY QUESTION TO ED, YOU KNOW, WHAT ELSE — SO MAYBE SOME PEOPLE WOULD COME FORWARD WHO DIDN’T BEFORE, BUT YOU SAID EARLIER THAT SOME PEOPLE MIGHT BE COMPLAINING AT THE PRECINCT AND IT NEVER EVEN RISES UP TO THIS BECAUSE THEN THE PERSON IS FINE AND SO FORTH. I’VE PEOPLE CALL AND COMPLAIN ABOUT TRAFFIC STOPS. DO YOU WANT ME TO PASS THAT ALONG? AH, NO. I CAN’T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THAT. IT’S JUST THE WAY IT IS. I DON’T THINK THIS SYSTEM IS GOING TO ADD TO THAT AND SUDDENLY THE OFFICER IS GOING TO HAVE TO RESIGN. THAT DOESN’T SEEM LIKELY TO ME. I COULD BE WRONG. THERE ARE ALWAYS OUT LIERS. BUT AT SOME POINT I DO THINK WE NEED TO BE MORE CAREFUL ABOUT OUR LANGUAGE TO SAY THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY, BECAUSE THAT THE WAY IT’S BEEN SOUNDING, IS SOMEHOW AFRAID OF OR DOESN’T TRUST THE POLICE. I DON’T THINK THAT’S TRUE. AND, ED, CHECK ME IF WE’RE WRONG, WE’RE DOING SOME POLLING TO CHECK THAT VERY THING? ISN’T THAT CORRECT? WAS THAN THAT THE OUTGROWTH OF THE JULY MEETING?>>YES, WE WILL PROCURE AN AGENCY TO HELP US DISCERN ATTITUDES OF THE COMMUNITY ABOUT POLICE.>>Mayor Gallego: COUNCILWOMAN GORE DOT OWE AND COUNCILMAN GARCIA.>>Councilwoman Guardado: I THINK PART OF THE REASON WHY WE ARE HERE TODAY IS BECAUSE WE ALL WANT TO SEE THE CITY MOVING FORWARD. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT — WHEN YOU LOOK AT OUR TITLE, WE’RE ALL CITY COUNCILORS. WE’RE ALL HEAR TO LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY AND DIFFERENT SIDES AND BEING ABLE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT ARE THE SOLUTIONS WE ARE LOOKING FOR, AND I THINK THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF US LOOKING FOR THAT SOLUTION FOR ALL OF US TO BE ABLE TO WORK TOGETHER AND FIND — AND FIND THE RIGHT SOLUTIONS. I WANT TO APPLIED EVERYONE SITTING HERE AT THIS TABLE AND COMMITTED TO LOOKING FOR THOSE SOLUTIONS AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW DO WE MOVE FORWARD, HOW DO WE IMPLEMENT THE RIGHT — THE RIGHT MOVEMENT IN ORDER FOR EVERYONE TO FEEL HAPPY, TO FEEL THAT THEY TRUST THEIR COMMUNITY AND THAT PEOPLE THAT ALREADY TRUST WILL BE EVEN BETTER CITIZENS. SO I JUST WANTED TO APPLAUD THE MAYOR FOR ALL THE GREAT WORK THAT SHE’S DOING, FOR COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA FOR MAKING SURE THAT THIS KEEPS MOVING FORWARD, AND ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES. I THINK EVERYONE HERE IS COMMITTED TO MOVING FORWARD HOPEFULLY WE’LL DEFINITELY FIND SOME GOOD SOLUTIONS.>>Mayor Gallego: THANK YOU. COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA?>>Councilman Garcia: YEAH, I THINK WHAT WE WANT OUT OF THIS PROCESS IS FOR THE COMMUNITY TO HAVE THEIR DAY IN COURT, AND THEIR ABILITY TO TRUST THAT WE’RE DOING DUE DILIGENCE. EVEN THE STATS YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, JIM, I THINK HAD TO — WERE GIVEN — WE DON’T KNOW HOW THEY CAME ABOUT, RIGHT? AND SO THAT TRUST IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT BEING ABLE TO INVESTIGATE THEMSELVES, WHETHER IT’S ONE INCIDENT OR A THOUSAND, IS NOT THERE, AND THAT’S WHY I THINK THIS PROCESS IS NECESSARY TO SIMPLY CREATE ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY, AND I THINK THAT’S WORTH WHAT AT LEAST HAS BEEN PUT ON PAPER SO THAT WE CAN RECREATE THAT TRUST IN THE COMMUNITY AND HAVE A BETTER POLICE DEPARTMENT, HAVE LESS INCIDENTS, AND HAVE A WAY TO MOVE THE CITY FORWARD.>>Mayor Gallego: I WANTED TO GO BACK TO OUR EXPERT FROM NACOL. COULD YOU A LITTLE BIT RESPOND, DO YOU THINK DIFFERENT MIGHT COMPLAIN TO AN AUDITOR/MONITOR OR PROVIDE FEED BACK TO AN AUDITOR/MONITOR THAN A PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS BUREAU? AND CAN YOU GIVE US AN EXAMPLE OF AN ISSUE BROUGHT FORWARD TO SOMEONE IN CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT WHERE A REFORM WAS IMPLEMENTED SO WE CAN UNDERSTAND HOW IDENTIFYING TRENDS COULD LEAD TO POLICY?>>THANK YOU, MAYOR. A COUPLE OF POINTS. I THINK IT’S — GOING BACK TO THE POINTS OF THE DATA OF THE NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS AS THEY RELATE TO THE OUTCOMES, IT’S VERY — THERE’S SO MANY DIFFERENT FACTORS THAT GO INTO THE OUTCOME OF THE COMPLAINTS AS FAR AS ARE PEOPLE NOT FILING COMPLAINTS. I HAD — FROM A PERSONAL STANDPOINT I HAD A CHIEF ONCE TELL ME, DO THE NUMBER — IF THE NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS ARE LOW, DOES THAT MEAN THAT MY OFFICERS ARE DOING A GOOD JOB AND I DON’T HAVE TO WORRY? OR DOES THAT MEAN THEY DON’T TRUST THE PROCESS? AND IF THEY DON’T TRUST THE PROCESS, THEN EVERY COMPLAINT SHOULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO EVALUATE THE LEVEL OF SERVICE WE’RE PROVIDING TO OUR COMMUNITY. SO I WILL TELL YOU FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WHEN THE AUDITOR’S MODEL WAS FIRST IMPLEMENTED IN TUCSON, THE COMPLAINTS THAT CAME DIRECTLY TO THE AUDITOR’S OFFICE WERE PROBABLY EQUAL TO THE NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS THAT WERE GOING DIRECTORY TO THE FRONT DOOR OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT THROUGH THEIR OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS. OVER THE YEARS OUR NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS ACTUALLY WENT DOWN AND PEOPLE WERE GOING MORE DIRECTLY TO THE OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS KNOWING THAT WE WERE STILL PART OF THE PROCESS, THE REVIEW PROCESS, BUT THEY FELT CONFIDENT THERE WAS GOING TO BE THAT LEVEL OF REVIEW. AND THE REASON I SAY THAT IS BECAUSE I ACTUALLY HAVE IT FROM PERSONAL TESTIMONY FROM PEOPLE THAT SAY I’M TAKING MY COMPLAINT THERE BUT I KNOW YOU’RE GOING TO — YOU’RE GOING TO REVIEW IT. SO I THINK THAT HAVING A PROCESS IN PLACE IS ALSO SOMETIMES SERVES AS A DETERRENT TO COMPLAINTS BECAUSE IF — THOSE THAT ARE BEING EVALUATED OR INVESTIGATED AS A RESULT OF A COMPLAINT KNOW THAT THERE’S GOING TO BE EYES OUTSIDE OF THE DEPARTMENT ALSO LOOKING AT HOW COMPLAINTS ARE INVESTIGATED, SOMETIMES THAT IS A DETERRENT TO COMPLAINTS, AND I TELL YOU THAT BECAUSE I HAD A POLICE CAPTAIN IN OUR DEPARTMENT ONE TIME TELL ME THAT, BASICALLY HE SAYS, IT MAKES BETTER INVESTIGATIONS — IT MAKES THEM INVESTIGATE CASES BETTER KNOWING THAT SOMEBODY ELSE IS GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THEM. I’M NOT SAYING THEY DID SHODDY INVESTIGATATIONS OR ANYTHING. WITH RESPECT TO THE QUESTION OF OUTCOMES AND RECOMMENDATIONS, AGAIN, IT’S HARD TO COMPARE NUMBERS ACROSS DIFFERENT OVERSIGHT ENTITIES, EVEN THE WAY THERE’S ALL THE DIFFERENT MODELS. EVERYBODY COMPILES THE DATA DIFFERENTLY. SO SOME PEOPLE ARE COUNTING ALL THE COMPLAINTS. SOME PEOPLE ONLY COUNT DIFFERENT TYPES OF COMPLAINTS OR THEY’LL ONLY ACCEPT DIFFERENT TYPES OF COMPLAINTS TO LOOK AT. SO IT’S VERY HARD. YOU CAN NEVER GET AN APPLES-TO-APPLES COMPARISON OF HOW YOU DO. ALSO SUSTAINED RATES. SOME PEOPLE SAY IF YOUR SUSTAINED RATES, LIKE, WAS THERE AN OUTCOME HERE, IS IT 5%, IS IT 10%? WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN? BECAUSE YOU CAN’T REALLY COMPARE IT TO ANYTHING BECAUSE EVERYBODY IS COMPARING THEM DIFFERENTLY. I’M SORRY, YOUR QUESTION ABOUT LIKE A RECOMMENDATION AS A RESULT OF –>>Mayor Gallego: AN EXAMPLE OF HOW THE AUDITOR MODEL — YOU SEDATE AAND DID YOU CHANGE POLICY?>>I CAN TELL YOU THAT — I CAN GIVE YOU SEVERAL DIFFERENT EXAMPLES, BUT ONE IN PARTICULAR THAT STICKS OUT TO ME WITH RESPECT TO THE TRAINING RECOMMENDATIONS, THE TUCSON POLICE DEPARTMENT YEARS AGO USED TO HAVE TRAINING ACADEMY WHERE DIFFERENT AGENCIES WERE PART OF THEIR CHAINING INSTRUCTORS IN THE ACADEMY. WE SAW A NUMBER OF TRENDS WITH COMPLAINTS OF OFFICERS USING CHOKEHOLDS WITH RESPECT TO — IN VARIOUS INTERACTIONS, AND IT WAS OVER A PERIOD OF PROBABLY 18 MONTHS, AND WE HAD FOUR OR FIVE DIFFERENT COMPLAINTS, AND WHEN WE STARTED TRACKING THE DATA, DOING THE ANALYSIS ON IT, WE FOUND THAT THESE COMPLAINTS WERE ALL BEING CONTRIBUTED BY — THEY WERE AGAINST OFFICERS THAT ALL HAD PAYROLL NUMBERS VERY CLOSE IN PROXIMITY, WHICH BASICALLY TOLD US, OH, THEY ALL CAME OUT OF THE SAME ACADEMY CLASS, AND THEN WHEN WE WENT BACK TO THE DEPARTMENT WE SAID, OKAY, WHO TAUGHT THIS PARTICULAR USE OF FORCE IN THAT ACADEMY CLASS, AND THEY’RE LIKE, OH, FOR THAT PARTICULAR CLASS, THAT TECHNIQUE WAS ACTUALLY TAUGHT BY AN INSTRUCTOR THAT WAS NOT WITHIN OUR DEPARTMENT FROM ANOTHER AGENCY THAT HAD BEEN BROUGHT IN, AND THAT ACTUAL TACTIC IS NOT WITHIN POLICY WITHIN OUR ORGANIZATION. SO WHAT THEY DID AT THAT TIME, THIS IS GOING BACK MANY YEARS, WHAT THEY DID AT THAT TIME, THEY TOOK THAT WHOLE CLASS BACK TO THE ACADEMY FOR THAT PARTICULAR LEVEL OF INSTRUCTION AND REDID IT, BECAUSE WE HAD LIKE AT LEAST SIX COMPLAINTS, AND SOME OF THEM WERE VERY SERIOUS. BUT IT WAS THAT PARTICULAR TYPE OF TECHNIQUE THAT WAS BEING TAUGHT, AND HAD WE NOT LOOKED AT — STARTED LOOKING AND COMPARING ALL THE COMPLAINTS BY BASICALLY SEEING THAT TREND IN THERE, THAT — FROM THAT POINT I THINK ABOUT A YEAR LATER WE STARTED USING NO INSTRUCTORS FROM OTHER AGENCIES. BUT, AGAIN, IT’S WHAT YOU’RE LOOKING AT THAT YOU DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE POLICY? DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE POLICY ON HOW — WE’VE HAD SITUATIONS WITH RESPECT TO HOW OUR OFFICERS INTERACT WITH THE MENTALLY — THE MENTAL HEALTH POPULATION, THE HOMELESS POPULATION. WHAT ARE OUR POLICIES FOR THAT? AND WE BROUGHT IN THE DEPARTMENT — THE DEPARTMENT HAS ACTUALLY GONE AND GOTTEN A LOT OF TRAINING. THEY’VE SHARED THAT TRAINING WITH OUR OVERSIGHT ENTITY AND WITH OUR BOARD, BUT WE’VE ALSO SHARED THAT INFORMATION WITH THE COMMUNITY. THIS IS HOW THE OFFICERS ARE GOING TO INTERACT WITH YOU IF YOU ARE — PART OF THE HOMELESS POPULATION. THESE ARE THE RESOURCES. THESE ARE THINGS WE’RE WORKING IN PARTNERSHIP WITH YOU BECAUSE WE DON’T WANT TO SEE THE COMPLAINTS BECAUSE BY RATHER NOT INVESTIGATE A COMPLAINT. I WOULD RATHER PREVENT A COMPLAINT. SO YOU LOOK AT AS MANY OPPORTUNITIES AS YOU CAN TO PREVENT COMPLAINTS DOWN THE ROAD BECAUSE IT HELPS THE TRUST OF THE COMMUNITY BUT IT ALSO HELPS OUR OFFICERS DO THEIR JOBS MORE EFFICIENTLY AS WELL.>>Mayor Gallego: WONDERFUL. THANK YOU. THAT ANSWERED THE — COUNCILWOMAN WILLIAMS?>>Councilwoman Williams: I THINK YOU JUST SAID YOU’RE GOING TO DO THE SURVEY? AND YOU’RE GOING — WHEN DO YOU ANTICIPATE IT WILL BE COMPLETED?>>City Mgr. Zuercher: I DON’T KNOW BECAUSE WE — WE’RE STILL PUTTING TOGETHER THE REQUEST TO GET THE FIRMS — THE DIRECTION FROM THE COUNCIL WAS A PRETTY EXPANSIVE, BOTH INCLUDING POLLING, WHICH I GUESS THE QUANTITATIVE AND THEN QUALITATIVE FOCUS GROUPS, MULTI-LINGUAL. SO GETTING ALL THAT PUT TOGETHER IS GOING TO BE A BIG TASK. SO I WOULD GUESS IT WOULD BE SOMETIME IN EARLY 2020 THAT WE WOULD BE READY TO DO THAT EFFORT BY THE TIME WE GET THE SCOPE WRITTEN, GET THE FIRM OR FIRMS PROCURED AND APPROVED BY COUNCIL, AND THEN ONCE THEY GET OUT IN THE FIELD I GUESS IT WOULD BE EARLY 2020.>>Councilwoman Williams: THAT DOES CONCERN ME ON SOME LEVEL. I MEAN — MY TOP — NOT MY TOP PRIORITY IN LIFE BUT I AGREE WITH COUNCILMAN WARING, WE EACH REPRESENT A DIFFERENT SEGMENT. [INAUDIBLE] I AM JUST CURIOUS — I’M HOPING YOU CAN MEASURE MY DISTRICT TO SEE IF WHAT I’M HEARING ON A FACE-TO-FACE COMPARES TO WHAT THE SURVEY SAYS.>>City Mgr. Zuercher: THE INSTRUCTIONS OF THE COUNCIL WAS TO GET A BIG ENOUGH SAMPLE SIZE THAT WE COULD WITH CONFIDENCE REPORT OUT BY GEOGRAPHY DISTRICTS AND IN SOME CASES MAYBE SMALLER THAN JUST DISTRICT, BUT ALSO BY DIFFERENT DEMOGRAPHIC GROUPS AS WELL. SO THAT’S ANOTHER ASPECT OF IT THAT’S GOING TO MAKE IT TAKE A LONGER AND BE MORE COSTLY BUT I THINK GIVE YOU BETTER DATA IN THE END, IS IF WE CAN HAVE A BIG ENOUGH SAMPLE SIZE THAT WE CAN GET WITH CONFIDENCE THE DIFFERENT SEGMENTS LIKE BY COUNCIL DISTRICT.>>Councilwoman Williams: BECAUSE I THINK IT’S IMPORTANT THAT WE ALSO WORK WITH THE COMMUNITY. I THINK IT’S VERY IMPORTANT THAT THE COMMUNITY HAS A ROLE IN THIS, TOO, AND I AM SOMEWHAT CONCERNED TO GET TOO DEEP, MAKE A BIG DECISION, AND THEN HAVE THE SURVEY COME BACK THAT REALLY QUESTIONS WHETHER WE NEEDED TO GO THAT FAR OR NOT. SO I’M — I NEED TO HEAR ANXIOUSLY HOW QUICKLY YOU CAN PUT THAT TOGETHER AND GET IT OUT. I THINK IT SHOULD BE A REAL TOP PRIORITY.>>Councilwoman Pastor: I WANT TO SAY –>>Mayor Gallego: COUNCILMAN NOWAKOWSKI AND THEN WE’LL TURN TO COUNCILWOMAN PASTOR.>>Councilman Nowakowski: THANK YOU, MAYOR. I HAVE BEEN CHAIR OF PUBLIC SAFETY FOR THE LAST EIGHT YEARS AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE ACTUALLY HAD A WORKSHOP WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT ISSUES LIKE THIS. I THINK TRUST IS SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT. THERE’S A SEGMENT OF OUR COMMUNITY THAT DOESN’T TRUST OUR POLICE OFFICERS, THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG. AND I LIKE TO THANK THE MAYOR FOR HER LEADERSHIP IN BRINGING US ALL TOGETHER AND HAVING THIS CONVERSATION, BECAUSE I THINK IT’S ABOUT TRYING TO INDIANA TO THAT COMMON GROUND AND WORKING THAT FROM COMMON GROUND TO FIND SOLUTIONS. AND I BELIEVE THAT WE CAN FIND THE SOLUTIONS IF WE WORK TOGETHER VERY HARD, AND I THINK THAT THIS CONVERSATION IS SOMETHING VERY POSITIVE, SOMETHING THAT WE GOT TO CONTINUE HAVING, AND WE GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE FEEL COMFORTABLE, THAT PEOPLE FEEL THEY CAN SIT ON THESE BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS AND THEY APPLY AND BE LOOKED AT, THAT THEIR NAMES AREN’T JUST GOING TO BE TOSSED OUT, THAT THEY ARE A PART OF THE PROCESS — THAT THEY’RE A PART OF THE PROCESS. AND I THINK EVERY ORGANIZATION OR CITY NEEDS TO LOOK AT REVAMPING THE SYSTEM AND IT’S BEEN A WHILE SINCE WE REALLY LOOKED AT ALL THESE BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS AND HOW WE APPOINT PEOPLE TO THEM AND HOW WE MAKE SURE THERE’S A DIVERSE GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS THAT REPRESENT THE TRUE FACE OF THE CITY OF PHOENIX. I WAS IMPRESSED BY JUST THE CENSUS REPORT JUST LAST WEEK WHERE WE SAID WITH THAT THERE’S OVER 700,000 LATINOS THAT LIVE IN THE CITY OF PHOENIX, THAT THEY HAPPEN TO BE THE MAJORITY. SO THAT’S INCREDIBLE. AND YOU LOOK AT MOST OF OUR BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS AND YOU DON’T SEE THE MAJORITY OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS BEING LATINO OR HISPANIC. SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT’S TIME FOR US TO REALLY SIT DOWN AS A BODY AND REALLY LOOK AT THE DIVERSITY OF OUR CITY AND MAKING SURE THAT THERE’S A PORTION OF OUR CITY THAT DOESN’T FEEL THAT TRUST FACTOR THAT WE NEED TO FIGURE IT OUT, AND I THINK, MAYOR, I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR LEADERSHIP FOR SITTING US ALL DOWN AND HAVING THIS WORK SESSION AND JUST LEARNING ABOUT THE LAWS AND WHAT ARE THE DO’S AND THE DON’TS OF THE COUNCIL, AND WHAT IS OUR AUTHORITY AND HOW CAN WE ACTUALLY ASK THOSE QUESTIONS NOW AND FIGURE OUT SOMETHING THAT WORKS FOR THE CITY OF PHOENIX, AND I — LIKE MISS PEREZ SAYS, SHE CAN’T JUST SAY THIS IS THE BEST PROGRAM OUT THERE, BECAUSE EVERY PROGRAM IS DESIGNED DIFFERENTLY FOR WHAT THE NEEDS ARE OF THAT COMMUNITY. SO I WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE THIS CONVERSATION, MAYOR. I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU BECAUSE YOU MADE A PROMISE WHEN YOU FIRST GOT ELECTED, AND I REMEMBER DURING YOUR INAUGURATION THERE WAS A POLICE OFFICER THAT WAS SHOT AND KILLED, AND YOU MADE A COMMITMENT TO THIS COMMUNITY THAT YOU’RE GOING TO TRY TO FIX IT AND YOU’RE GOING DOWN THE RIGHT PATH, AND AS YOUR CHAIR OF PUBLIC SAFETY WILL CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION WITH THE MEMBERS ON THAT BOARD. I KNOW WE’RE GOING TO TRY TO FIGURE IT OUT. AND IT MIGHT NOT BE — NOT EVERYONE IS GOING TO BE HAPPY. IT’S NOT GOING TO A WIN-WIN ON EITHER SIDE. BUT I THINK IT’S GOING TO BE A WIN-WIN FOR THE CITY OF PHOENIX. SO ONCE AGAIN, THANK YOU, AND I WANT TO THANK ALL THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT CONTINUE TO ADVOCATE, BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT WE NEED SOMEBODY THAT ADVOCATES FOR THE COMMUNITY ALSO. SO JUST LIKE WHAT YOU’RE SAYING, YOUR EXAMPLE, IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN ONE TRAINER THAT FORGOT OR BASICALLY THEY DIDN’T TRAIN THE INDIVIDUALS THE RIGHT WAY, AND IT MIGHT BE JUST A MISTAKE LIKE THAT WE NEED TO BRING BACK A WHOLE TRAINING CREW AND RETRAIN INDIVIDUALS. SO I THINK IT’S JUST LOOKING FOR THE TRUTH. SO THANK YOU SO MUCH. ONCE AGAIN, I WANT TO THANK MY COLLEAGUES FOR SITTING HERE AND SUPPORTING THIS PROCESS.>>Mayor Gallego: THANK YOU. AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK. AND IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WHILE WE CONTINUE THIS PROCESS THE PUBLIC SAFETY SUBCOMMITTEE IS WORKING ON A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT ITEMS TO HELP STRENGTHEN SAFETY IN OUR COMMUNITY. WE ARE APPROACHING 5:30, WHICH WAS MY GOAL TO END THIS MEETING. WE ALREADY HAVE ANOTHER MEETING SCHEDULED, AND SO AS COUNCIL MEMBERS MAKE THEIR FINAL COMMENTS, IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO ME AND TO OUR STAFF IF YOU COULD KEEP SPECIFICALLY MENTION ANYTHING YOU’D LIKE TO SEE ON THE NEXT AGENDA OR INFORMATION YOU’VE TAKEN AWAY THAT IS HELPFUL FOR YOU IN MAKING A DECISION AS A POLICY MAKER. I WILL TURN TO COUNCILWOMAN PASTOR AND THEN THE VICE MAYOR.>>Councilwoman Pastor: SO, COUNCILWOMAN WILLIAMS, I BELIEVE I GAVE — I WANT TO SAY SIX OR SEVEN SPECIFIC ITEMS ON THIS SURVEY AND WHAT IT NEEDED TO LOOK LIKE AND IT WAS A VERY INTENSE DIRECTIVE AS TO WHAT IT NEEDED TO REFLECT — IT NEEDED TO REFLECT THE COMMUNITY AND ALSO THE WRITING OF THE QUESTIONS WERE SUPPOSED TO BE — OR THE CRAFTING OF THE QUESTIONS WERE SUPPOSED TO BE COMMUNITY ALSO INVOLVEMENT SO I’M NOT SURE IF WE COULD GO FASTER. I’M SURE THE CITY MANAGER WILL TRY BUT THERE’S A LOT OF ELEMENTS IN THE SURVEY THAT — OF COMMUNITY MEETINGS, OF DIVERSITY. THERE’S JUST A LOT OF THINGS I PUT IN THAT PROCESS.>>Councilwoman Williams: [INAUDIBLE]>>Councilwoman Pastor: OH, I DON’T KNOW. MADE IT TOO COMPLICATED. TO MY COLLEAGUE, COUNCILMAN WARING,, AND TO ALL MY COLLEAGUES, I FEEL THAT WE ALL REPRESENT THE CITY, AND WE ALL REPRESENT DIFFERENT DYNAMICS AND PARTS OF THE CITY, BUT ULTIMATELY I THINK IN EVERY DISTRICT, IF WE SURVEY, AND WE SURVEY RIGHT, OR THE QUESTION IS, DO YOU TRUST THE POLICE, WE WILL DEFINITELY GET A GEOGRAPHIC AREA OR DEMOGRAPHIC AREA OF WHERE THE TRUST IS OR WHERE THE TRUST ISN’T. I THINK THAT’S IMPORTANT. BECAUSE — I THINK IT’S IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT ALSO DEMONSTRATES SOCIOECONOMICS. IT ALSO DEMONSTRATES THE GENDER, WHO IS RESPONDING. IT ALSO DEMONSTRATES THE ETHNICITY THAT IS BEHIND WHO DOESN’T TRUST AND WHY. AND I THINK IT’S IMPORTANT FOR US AS THE FIFTH LARGEST CITY IN THIS SPACE AND TIME THAT WE’RE PROACTIVE, WHERE OTHER CITIES HAVE BEEN REACTIVE BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN MAJOR INCIDENTS THAT HAVE HAPPENED IN THOSE CITIES THAT CAUSED THE EFFECT TO BE IN THE SPACE THAT WE’RE IN TODAY. IF THERE’S AN ISSUE OF TRUST, WHAT I’M HEARING FROM MISS PEREZ, IS WHEN THESE BOARDS — OR WHEN THE BOARD WAS FORMED AND EVERYTHING, THERE WERE DIFFERENT DIFFERENT ITEMS THAT BUBBLED UP IN THE PROCESS THAT PROBABLY NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN SEEN, AND IN THAT PROCESS IT WAS DEMONSTRATE — OR WHAT I’M HEARING WAS DEMONSTRATED, THAT THE COMMUNITY — A TRUST LEVEL THEN BECAME ABOUT, AND IT BECAME STRONGER. SO I DON’T SEE WHAT’S WRONG IN HAVING ANOTHER SET OF EYES LOOKING AT THINGS. I ALSO BELIEVE THAT THE POLICE, IT’S ANOTHER SET OF EYES FOR YOU IN THE SENSE OF PROTECTION AND ALSO TRUST WITHIN YOUR OWN COMMUNITY, BECAUSE I HAVE ALSO HEARD FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT DYNAMICS OF WHERE LAW OFFICERS DON’T TRUST ONE ANOTHER. AND SO TRUST, OBVIOUSLY, IS WHAT’S BRINGING US TOGETHER SO ULTIMATELY I WOULD LIKE TO CREATE A SYSTEM WHERE WE’RE ABLE TO THEN LOOK AT AN INVESTIGATION, LOOK AT THE FACTS, LOOK AT THE ITEMS, AND SEE IF THERE WAS ANYTHING WRONG. IF THERE WAS, WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO DIFFERENTLY AND HOW DO WE GO ABOUT DOING IT, WHICH INCLUDES IN THAT PROCESS A POLICY. BECAUSE IT SOUNDED LIKE WHAT HAPPENED IS YOU LOOKED AT POLICY AND POLICY THEN NEEDED TO BE CHANGED, AND SO I THINK THAT’S IMPORTANT TO HAVE ANOTHER SET OF EYES TO PROTECT ALL OF US. MAYOR, YOU ASKED WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE AN UNBIASED AND EVIDENCE-BASED MODEL. I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SEE AUTHORITY TO AUDIT PAUL TEASE, TRAINING AND PRACTICES, AS WELL AS ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE IN CRITICAL INCIDENT INVESTIGATIONS, STAY WITHIN THE LAW, THAT THE MODEL UTILIZES QUALIFIED STAFF WITH BACKGROUND BUT ALSO HAS COMMUNITY IN IT AND LOOKS AT QUALITATIVE AND QUANTITATIVE DATA, WAS ABLE TO PRODUCE PUBLIC REPORTS AND ACTUAL ITEMS. ALSO BE ABLE TO WORK WITH THE COMMUNITY AND CREATE THAT ALLIANCE, I GUESS I WOULD SAY, OR TRUST, AND FINALLY, THAT THE MODEL CAN SUCCESSFULLY IMPLEMENT THE RECOMMENDATIONS WHICH WILL LEAD TO A BETTER ACCOUNTABILITY AND A STRONGER COMMUNITY. AND, REALLY, IT’S REALLY ULTIMATELY ACCOUNTABILITY ACROSS THE BOARD AROUND THE COMMUNITY. SO THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS.>>Mayor Gallego: THANK YOU. VICE MAYOR?>>Councilman Waring: THANK YOU. SO JUST A COUPLE OF THINGS. I’VE SAID BEFORE I RECOGNIZE THAT WE ALL YOU REPRESENT DIFFERENT AREAS. I DEFINITELY APPRECIATED COUNCILMAN NOWAKOWSKI’S QUALIFIERS. HE TALKED ABOUT SEGMENT OF THE COMMUNITY. I THINK HE ALSO USED — IS HE GONE? OH,’S COMING BACK. HEARD HIS NAME AND HE’S COMING BACK. AND PORTION OF THE COMMUNITY. I THINK THAT’S MUCH MORE FAIR THAN THE WAY THIS IS BEING TALKED ABOUT BEFORE. I DON’T THINK IT’S FAIR, AS I SAID, TO THE OFFICERS TO TALK ABOUT IT LIKE NOBODY TRUSTS THEM. NOW, I RECOGNIZE DISTRICT 2 IS ALSO NOT SOME MONOLITHIC BLOCK WHERE EVERYBODY THINKS THE SAME. I RECOGNIZE IF YOU POLL ENOUGH PEOPLE YOU’LL PROBABLY FIND SOME IN DISTRICT 2 FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER DON’T HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THE POLICE AND SO FORTH. OBVIOUSLY NOTHING IS GOING TO POLL 100% ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. I JUST DON’T THINK IT’S FAIR TO LEAVE THE IMPRESSION THAT THE THAT THE POLICE SOMEHOW AREN’T UP TO THE TASK. THAT WAS DEFINITELY THE TENOR OF MEETINGS, NOT NECESSARILY FROM THE COUNCIL MEMBERS, BUT WHAT PEOPLE WOULD TAKE AWAY FROM AUDIENCE MEMBERS AND SOME STAFFER COMMENTS. I DON’T THINK IT’S WHERE WE HAVE WITH 2.5 MILLION INTERACTIONS AND WE BOILED IT DOWN TO 50. THERE MAY BE MORE COMING FORWARD IF THIS GETS IMPLEMENTED, BUT HOW MANY AND HOW SERIOUS THOSE ALLEGATIONS WOULD BE THAT NEVER EVEN REACHED THIS LEVEL, I GUESS MAYBE WE’RE GOING TO FIND OUT IF YOU MOVE FORWARD. THERE WAS AN IMPLICATION THAT THERE’S SO MUCH LACK OF TRUST IN THE POLICE THAT WE CAN’T EVEN TAKE AT FACE VALUE SORT OF THEIR STATISTICS. SO, CHIEF — AND IT WAS ACTUALLY SAL DiCICCIO WHO PULLED THE DATA, BUT I READ THE CASES OF THE POLICE SHOOTINGS, WHICH IS REALLY, I THINK, WHY WE’RE HERE. WE’RE NOT REALLY TALKING ABOUT A TRAFFIC STOP WHERE THE GUY’S BEDSIDE MANNER DIDN’T MATCH UP WITH WHAT THE CITIZEN EXPECTED. THAT MAY BE A FEW OF THE TRAININGS AND COACHES. BUT WE’RE DOCKING REALLY ABOUT THE MORE VIOLENT INCIDENTS. YOU PROVIDE ADD WHILE AGO A LIST OF ALL THE SHOOTINGS, WHAT HAPPENED, AND I GUESS DEPARTMENT’S VERSION OF EVENTS IN 2016, 2017 AND HALF OF ’18. I FORGET HOW MANY THERE WERE. I WENT THROUGH ALL OF THEM. MARKED THEM UP. I THINK WE’RE IN AGREE THE MAJORITY TO WHAT I RECOLLECT WAS CITIZEN GENERATED. BUT TO THAT END THE REPUBLIC HAD DONE A STORY WHERE 89% HAD WEAPONS AND THAT WAS OVER FIVE YEARS. MY GUESS IS THEY CUT OFF THE END OF 2018. SO I WOULD BE CURIOUS, LET’S GO BACK FIVE YEARS, COULD YOU TELL ME HOW MANY OF THOSE WERE CITIZEN GENERATED? AND MY CITIZEN GENERATED, I DON’T THINK THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED A DUBIOUS CLAIM. YOU WOULD HAVE THE 911 CALLS, CORRECT? WE KEEP THE TAPES. THEY PLAY THEM ON THE NEWS AND SO FORTH. I DON’T THINK THAT CAN BE IN DISPUTE. I GUESS THERE’S ALWAYS THE NYPD BLUE THING OF PLANTED WEAPONS OR SOMETHING. I THINK THAT’S SOMETHING MORE OUT OF TV SHOWS THAN ANY KIND OF REAL LIFE. SO THE 89% FIGURE I WOULD HOPE WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE AGREED UPON AS WELL. YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THEM, AGAIN, FROM MY RECOLLECTION, I THINK IT WAS MOST, SHOTS WERE FIRED AT THE OFFICERS OR SOMEBODY ELSE. AND THE CITIZEN CALLED IT IN. I GUESS I WOULD ASK IN FAIRNESS, ALL OF US UP HERE, SO YOU’RE THE OFFICER, WE JUST PLOP YOU IN THEIR SHOES. WHAT ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO? YOU SHOW UP, CITIZEN CALLED. GUY WITH A GUN. HE’S SHOOTING, RUNNING DOWN THE STREET, WHATEVER. WHAT’S FAIR HERE? ANOTHER LAYER OF LOOKING AT THIS LIKE, MAYBE, OKAY, MAYBE THAT IS, BUT I THINK THAT’S REALLY — PUTS A LOT OF APPRECIATE OUR THESE GUYS AND I THINK AT SOME POINT — I DON’T KNOW — I DON’T KNOW ABOUT THE BASIC FAIRNESS OF THAT. AT SOME POINT THEY’RE GOING THROUGH A LOT OF THINGS ALREADY, AND COUNTY ATTORNEY IS INVESTIGATING AND SO FORTH AND YOU’RE SEEING THE RESULT HERE. SOME LOST THEIR JOBS. SOME WERE SUSPENDED. THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE 2.5 MILLION, THAT DIDN’T HAPPEN. THERE MAY BE SOME MORE IF THIS GETS PUT OUT, THAT’S TRUE, BUT IT’S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO BE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS. THAT DOESN’T SOUND REAL TO ME. SO I GUESS I WOULD JUST SAY, CHIEF, IF YOU COULD GO THROUGH THOSE, I WOULD BE CURIOUS, HOW MANY WERE WE TRYING TO RESCUE CITIZENS — NOT WE, BUT OUR OFFICERS WERE TRYING TO RESCUE CITIZENS ASKING FOR HELP. HOW MANY WERE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE? SEEMS LIKE I RECOLLECT QUITE A FEW. I THINK WE’RE ALL AGAINST DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. I’M NOT SAYING ANY OF US ANTIPOLICE. I’M NOT CASTING ASPERSIONS ON EVERYONE. I’M NOT A PEOPLE PERSON. THINK WHAT YOU WILL — I’M NOT THE EXPERT. I’M JUST READING THE RESULT. I GUESS IN FAIRNESS FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO WANTED TO TAKE THAT UP, WHICH ONE IS JUST GINNED UP WHERE THE DEPARTMENT STORY SOUNDS HINKY. BECAUSE A LOT — THEY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT, THEY DIDN’T KNOW THERE WAS A CRIME UNTIL SOMEBODY CALLED, ONE OF OUR CITIZENS, ONE OF OUR 1.6 MILLION ASKING FOR HELP. I GUESS IF WE COULD HAVE THAT FOR NEXT TIME THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO ME. AND THAT MIGHT HELP THIS NARRATIVE THAT’S BEING CONSTRUCTED HERE. THANK YOU.>>Mayor Gallego: WE HAVE REACHED 5:30, SO I WILL TURN TO COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA. OUR GOAL WITH TODAY’S SESSION WAS TO PRESENT INFORMATION AND FOR US TO LEARN A LOT. IT WAS — WE HAVE PREVIOUSLY SCHEDULED A FOLLOW-UP SESSION. SO OUR GOAL WAS NOT TODAY TO FIND ALL OF THE ANSWERS, BUT I DO FEEL WE HAVE MOVED FORWARD IN OUR UNDERSTANDING, AND COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA.>>Councilman Garcia: THANK YOU, MAYOR. THANK YOU MILTON, STAFF. I THINK FOR NEXT TIME I WOULD WANT TO GET OF MORE ROLES OF JOB DESCRIPTIONS OF AUDITORS, INVESTIGATORS AND HOW OTHER OFFICES FUNCTION. I THINK THE CASE EXAMPLE YOU GAVE — LIKE, TO ME, THAT WAS — I AM THAT TYPE OF PERSON. IF WE COULD GET MORE EXAMPLES OF HOW THINGS HAVE GONE WELL OR NOT GONE WELL IN OTHER PLACES. OTHER CITIES — FROM THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF THOSE FORMS, AND I’M LOOKING FORWARD TO HAVING A CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARD CAN THAT ANSWER A LOT OF THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU JUST BROUGHT UP. SO THANK YOU.>>Mayor Gallego: THANK YOU. APPRECIATE EVERYONE JOINING US FOR TODAY’S MEETING. AT THE JULY 2nd POLICY SESSION WE SAID WE WOULD COME TOGETHER AND ADDRESS THESE ISSUES. I APPRECIATE OUR EXPERTS. PEOPLE PUT A LOT OF TIME AND RESEARCH INTO THE INFORMATION TODAY, AND I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU. IT HELPS US COME TO THESE ISSUES WITH A STRONGER UNDERSTANDING. WE WILL CONTINUE TO WORK TO BUILD A SAFER CITY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PARTNERSHIP. WE ARE ADJOURNED.

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